Setting the record straight for setting recording levels in Logic

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Level 1

24 points

Setting the record straight for setting recording levels in Logic

Hey everyone,
I asked a similar question a while back and got some great feedback, but I'm still a little confused about how to set a perfect recording level and work with the fader in Logic. A lot of what I've been doing has been trial and error and I would like to ask a few more specific questions:

I record with a MOTU traveler and have recently, for example, been recording direct with my guitar into the MOTU inputs. I am using "pre-fader metering", which is checked, and I using "software monitoring", which is also checked. When I am watching the fader, what should I be looking for? I always have the fader set at 0.0db. How do I set the perfect level in this situation? Should the fader be hitting red as I record? How do I make sure I don't clip, and what should I be watching for overall? AND, is it all the same process when recording with microphones? I've heard Logic records at a low level with MOTU products, but what exaclty does this mean in terms of setting levels and watching the fader as I record? I have been recording a lot lately and have some good sounding tracks and some that are not so great and I think it has a lot to do with the topic of this post.
Thanks for the help and clarification.

Mac book Pro, Mac OS X (10.4.5), 1.83 GHz, Motu Traveler, Logic Pro 7.2

Posted on Sep 19, 2006 11:03 PM

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Answer 1

Sep 20, 2006 12:48 AM in response to Jack Q

the fader position in logic does nothing to affect the recording level. That is totally dependent on the gain setting on your MOTU. The logic fader merely allows you to adjust the level at which you listen to the material you are recording. If you set the gain correctly on your MOTU then you shouldn't see the logic audio object hit the red unless your logic fader is set higher than 0dB. If your logic fader is at 0, and you still see red, then your gain is set too high. Remember, digital distortion is not like analog distortion. Once you have recorded the signal and you are in playback mode, then things change somewhat. The internal headroom of logic allows individual channels to hit the red without causing audible distortion. You should definitely avoid hitting the red on your audio output objects though.

I haven't heard about low levels with MOTU stuff. My own 896 has three settings on the inputs - mic, line and fixed +4dB. If you have variable gain as well, then you should be able to get healthy gain. If your recording level is very low, then recording at 24bit will help a lot towards a more detailed recording, as 16 bit can get grainy if the recorded levels are low.

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Answer 2

Jack Q Author

Level 1

24 points

Sep 20, 2006 8:42 AM in response to Melissa Whennell

So, it doesn't matter what the fader is showing in logic, as long as it doesn't hit red? Is there a correct level it should be showing?

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Answer 3

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,900 points

Sep 20, 2006 8:58 AM in response to Jack Q

While recording, the fader only changes the monitoring level, it has absolutely nothing to do with your recording levels and with the audio data being written to disk.

Record at 24-bit, aim to get your meters around the middle so you leave plenty of headroom, and make sure your audio interface meters/pre-amps aren't clipping, and you'll be golden.

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Answer 4

Jack Q Author

Level 1

24 points

Sep 20, 2006 9:08 AM in response to Bee Jay

Bee Jay,

Is there a way to tell in LOGIC if my audio interface/pre-amps are/aren't clipping, and set all recording levels, or do I have to do this through "cuemix", which is the software provided for my MOTU for monitoring? I would like to do all of this in Logic and not deal with anything else.

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Answer 5

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,900 points

Sep 20, 2006 9:49 AM in response to Jack Q

All Logic knows is the stream of data the audio interface is passing to it. Logic knows nothing about what the interface is doing prior to sending the data to Logic. You could turn the pre-amps up to max and be clipping them into white noise - all Logic will see is a digital audio stream, which will resemble white noise, and which won't be clipping.

Logic has absolutely no way to tell if your analog preamps are clipping.

(Remember, it's impossible to clip a digital audio signal. You can though clip your convertors, so the resultant audio stream will sound distorted, but the audio stream itself will never clip - remember, digial can't go above 0dBFS)

Does your interface not have clip lights on the front panel?

Generally speaking, I'll plug in an instrument/mic into my audio interface, adjust the input gain on the interface so I get a healthy signal, make sure the lights on the interface don't clip on the loud stuff, put Logic into record and go.

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Answer 6

mvee

Level 1

6 points

Sep 20, 2006 10:11 AM in response to Bee Jay

I like this topic. Heres a question, I record vocals through a la610 into my projectmix, I set the levels on the la610 so that my input nobs on my projectmix are turned all the way down. Is that ok, I mean I get good vocals, Ive been using logic for a few months and havent really had time to experement. What are some good books or dvd that talk about recording vocals, midi instruments, compression on kicks and snares. I dont do live recording like with a drummer and bass player, I use battery2 and softsynths. I play the guitar a little and put licks in my tracks but my main thing right now are the drum and vocals

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Answer 7

Jack Q Author

Level 1

24 points

Sep 20, 2006 7:05 PM in response to Bee Jay

With the fader set at 0.0db, what should the number next to the fader be reading, on average, when recording into logic, to ensure the best recording level and no clipping?

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Answer 8

Sep 20, 2006 7:24 PM in response to Jack Q

hi mr q,
-18db when referenced to 0dbfs is generally considered 0VU.
this is movable + - 3db or so.
motu's do exhibit a low reading.
and to my ears sound very 2 dimensional.
get the motu input registering all green and a little yellow on peaks.
you could mic up a small analog radio/cassette deck (with a speaker) and use that as a reference. (a highly compressed signal comes from radio).
logic should show ~ -12to18db. this is correct.
the motu outs sound best when pushed. get the out meters to show all green and a little amber. then turn your speakers down/up to suit. then use the motu's monitor knob.
i have a motu 896HD, unimpressive. (silvery top end like cough berhinger).
recommend: RME or Metric Halo.

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Answer 9

Jack Q Author

Level 1

24 points

Sep 20, 2006 7:31 PM in response to David Robinson9

Thanks David,
Basically I'm trying to avoid dealing with the motu cuemix altogehter. I simply want to watch the fader on the logic audio track and make sure I am not clipping and get the best signal possible. Is this actually possible? I have software monitoring enabled in Logic.
Thanks for the help.

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Answer 10

Sep 20, 2006 9:23 PM in response to Jack Q

Jack

Don't be afriad of Cue Mix. It's just a real simple simulated mixing board. Your are definetly going to have to play with the levels on the MOTU to get the levels right and adjusting the MOTU manually is possible but not very intuitive.

David

I'll give you $200 for your HD. Black Lion Audio will make that puppy sing for another $350.

Les

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Answer 11

Jack Q Author

Level 1

24 points

Sep 20, 2006 10:07 PM in response to Les Beshears

Should I have "software monitoring" unchecked or checked when using cuemix? I can't find an answer for this anywhere.

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Answer 12

Sep 20, 2006 10:59 PM in response to Jack Q

Hi Jack

I'm sort of a Noob myself so allow me to demonstrate my intelligence (or lack of). I'm not real clear on the Software monitoring, but I think I would try it both ways and see if I notice any difference. (Any body with a brain out there feel free to weight in). My brute force method for learning is "When in doubt try it out". If I totally wreck something fiddeling with it that just gives me the opportunity to take it apart and try to put it back together again. But seriously, I don't think you'll hurt anything turning the software monitering off and on. I suspect that you can monitor things directly through your MOTU although I haven't figued that part out myself yet.

Les

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Answer 13

eyeknow

Level 1

45 points

Sep 20, 2006 11:12 PM in response to Jack Q

this could possibly NOT be relevant......but I feel the need to add these anyways....

a. cuemix is input only. It's probably the #1 compaint of motu users......all "ouput" monitoring is done in logicpro with the traveler. That sure makes things more difficult for me with levels/monitoring/etc. I hear rme and appogee as well as metric halo all have the advantage of output mixing as well......if I'm wrong or left something out.....please correct me.

b. I've noticed that that motu preamp/inputs.......whatever are VERY VERY unforgiving. This has been a real drag when especially recording bass. My 5 string b will clip out the motu under the BEST of circumstances. I use a solo610 to help, but you really don't get any more "headroom"......which brings us back to the complicated "how to" for input and output routing with this traveler

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Answer 14

Sep 21, 2006 1:47 AM in response to eyeknow

eyeknow

I think your comment is not only relevant but you probally answered Jacks question. (Give him the star Jack). Sounds like if he needs to monitor it through the computer, software monitoring should be on. Myself, I'm old fashion enough that I can't imagine doing any of this stuff with out an outboard mixer and a rack of effects. What I was thinking was to turn software monitoring off, plug all the mikes, guitares, keyboard, ect. thru the mixing board, eq, compress, reverb outside the computer so I get the sound I'm used to hearing, run a dry aux. out to MOTU, set recording levels with Cue Mix, record into logic. Once its recorded dry, then you can play with all the goodies and effects Logic provides on the way out.
Would an outboard compressor on that low bass note take some of the boom off? Just a thought.

Les

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Answer 15

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,900 points

Sep 21, 2006 3:25 AM in response to Jack Q

Jack, it is not possible to use Logic to tell you whether your preamps on your audio interface are clipping.

It's the job of the metering on the audio interface to do this. It works like this on all preamps and interfaces.

In normal use you probably won't have to use Cuemix. You set it up for whatever routings you need, and simply adjust the input gains on your audio interface, and make sure it's clip meters don't light. As long as there is metering and input gains on your interface, you shouldn't need to have cue mix open.

Otherwise, you will need to use it, I guess.

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