Q: Add child account need credit card

Negative. I do not choose to exclude myself from anything except banking fees. I *choose* to live within my means. I choose not to pay interest rates and/or annual fees to a commercial banking institution for the privilege of spending money I don't have. I have several forms of ID for identifying myself - driver's license, passport, military ID, etc., and they have always been all I need. I'm not living "off the grid" here. I'm a regular Joe with a home, a family, 2 cars, a good job, a cat and a dog. I travel quite a bit, I rent cars and hotels regularly. As I said earlier this is the first time in over a decade without credit cards that I have run into a situation that required me to have an actual credit card vs. a debit card, and it's a pretty silly requirement in this day and age.

Can you name just one thing that I have "excluded" myself from by not having a credit card besides adding a child account to iTunes? No fair saying "banking fees" - I already said that one.

I'm sorry if it offends you that I don't have a credit card. Bear in mind that a credit card is a service that is being sold by a banking institution. It isn't free and it isn't "required" (no matter how much the banks would love that). In fact I find it offensive that I should be required to have one to prove my identity. That is like *requiring* that I provide my cable TV account number to prove my identity and not allowing me to sign up if I don't have enough channels or if I (God forbid!) don't have cable (I don't). Just silly.

I have several forms of ID for identifying myself - driver's license, passport, military ID, etc., and they have always been all I need.

Welcome to the 21st century. Those things are fine for dealing with the 3D world. They are not sufficient when it comes to signing a legal document electronically as you must do when setting up an account for a child on-line.

Can you name just one thing that I have "excluded" myself from by not having a credit card besides adding a child account to iTunes?

You have excluded yourself from taking advantage of any service that requires a legally recognized electronic signature. Family Share is just one example.

In fact I find it offensive that I should be required to have one to prove my identity. That is like *requiring* that I provide my cable TV account number to prove my identity and not allowing me to sign up if I don't have enough channels or if I (God forbid!) don't have cable (I don't). Just silly.

You know what, I'm not offended by the fact that you don't have or want a credit card. What offends me is your absolute refusal to pay attention to and try to understand what you're being told.

There are LAWS regarding the use of on-line services by children 12 and under. The requirement to use a credit card is there because you must give parental consent for their use of the system. A debit card can not be used to sufficiently verify your identity in a way that complies with the law. A credit card can.

Stop ranting about it. That's not going to change. Go call your congressman. Until the law changes, no on-line service that allows children to use the system will be able to do things any other way.

So that would be no? You can't name one specific thing that i have excluded myself from? I didn't think so.

So here is the actual text of the statute you keep referring to (in CAPS!) but obviously have never read:

Access Verification

At a parent's request, operators must disclose the general kinds of personal information they collect online from children (for example, name, address, telephone number, email address, hobbies), as well as the specific information collected from children who visit their sites. Operators must use reasonable procedures to ensure they are dealing with the child's parent before they provide access to the child's specific information.

They can use a variety of methods to verify the parent's identity, including:

• obtaining a signed form from the parent via postal mail or facsimile;
• accepting and verifying a credit card number;
• taking calls from parents on a toll-free telephone number staffed by trained personnel;
• email accompanied by digital signature;
• email accompanied by a PIN or password obtained through one of the verification methods above.

Operators who follow one of these procedures acting in good faith to a request for parental access are protected from liability under federal and state law for inadvertent disclosures of a child's information to someone who purports to be a parent.

http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm

You will notice that there are many methods listed to verify the parent's identity. Apple *chooses* to follow one and only one of them.

I would suggest in the future you do your homework before weighing in on subjects that you aren't fully familiar with. I understand that you, personally, can't do anything about this situation (except repeat the same misinformation and act superior) but instead you could help bring this conversation to the attention of real Apple representatives who may be able to provide some relief. Thank you.

That's right. Unfortunately, the necessary infrastructure has not been put in place by the banking and credit card industries to be able to use a debit card for verification. If it were, you could, but it's not. As for the others, there are costs involved with those that virtually none of the service providers have opted for.

I am very familiar with the subject. Much more so than you appear to be. Especially since you obviously don't understand either technology or the law.

You've already been told to use the "contact us" link at the bottom of the page if you want to vent your frustration to Apple.

Now move on with life. I'm done with this conversation. It's like trying to have an intelligent conversation with a brick.

Actually, the FTC lists the use of a debit card as a valid form of parental consent. This can be found under section H subsection 4 of the "Complying with Coppa" documentation for businesses. This item states:

• Requiring the parent, in connection with a monetary transaction, to use a credit card, debit card, or other online payment system that provides notification of each discrete transaction to the primary account holder;

Referenced from: http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/0493-Complying-with-COPPA-Frequently-Asked -Questions#Verifiable Parental