Airport Extreme & AT&T U-Verse

The AT&T tech was cautious, tho. He was concerned that AT&T's equipment had to use DHCP with 192.168.1.254 to connect the TVs. He was concerned that it might conflict with the Airport Extreme that also uses 192.168.1.254 and DHCP. He wondered if there could be a static IP address for the Airport Extreme.

The AE should be in bridge mode.. it should not be supplying DHCP to clients.. it should be a dumb AP in the network.

If the AE has been working since 2008 it is gen1 or gen2 and is frankly in need of replacement.. you have had good service out of it.. but 3years is average now for routers.. and even apple die after 4-5.. yours has been running 6years.

Tell us if it is a newer model.. and give some screenshots of the setup if you still need help.. but in bridge it simply should not conflict.

Hello, I have a related question. I currently use my airport extreme hooked to a modem supplied by Comcast. I will be switching to AT&T U-Verse, so I was wondering if I need the same setup, a modem or gateway supplied by AT&T connected to my Airport Extreme? Or, is it possible to get internet signal directly from the wall outlet directly to my Airport Extreme. I'd like to avoid the monthly fee for the modem if possible.

Thanks.

jpfw25 wrote:

Hello, I have a related question. I currently use my airport extreme hooked to a modem supplied by Comcast. I will be switching to AT&T U-Verse, so I was wondering if I need the same setup, a modem or gateway supplied by AT&T connected to my Airport Extreme? Or, is it possible to get internet signal directly from the wall outlet directly to my Airport Extreme. I'd like to avoid the monthly fee for the modem if possible.

Thanks.

The Airport has no modem.. so you must buy one.. but buy outright so you don't rent it from the ISP.. they have a list of suitable modems that you can buy.

Thank you so much for the quick reply!!

I recently switched to AT&T U-verse; and as previously, with my DSL setup, I wanted to put my Airport Extreme in charge of internet traffic generally and wireless traffic in particular, but the AT&T Arris modem/router does not allow a true bridge mode setting. After several abortive calls to AT&T ConnectTech, a CT supervisor (on the phone from somewhere far afield, across the sea) struggled to walk me through me some settings for my new Airport Extreme. Those settings worked generally, but I began to experience trouble immediately with my Apple TV's ability to reach Netflix, which signaled a problem with the network. A couple of calls to AppleCare put me in touch with a brilliant AppleCare Senior Advisor, who finally set the matter straight (a conflict in pathways, as set-up by AT&T ConnectTech), not only regarding the problem with Netflix but for the AirportExtreme/AT&T U-verse set-up in its entirety. Now the whole system works like a dream, Netflix opens in a flash, and network speeds regularly exceed 20Mbps download/1.8 Mbps upload, more than triple what I had with DSL. Here are the procedures and the correct Airport Extreme settings (reached through Airport Utility).

Open Airport Utility.

1. If you have already set-up your Airport Extreme, named it and so forth, and possibly set it up already to "extend" the AT&T network, you are part of the way there.
2. Select your Airport Extreme. (You may already see a Double NAT error, with a red indicator. If so, click the words Double NAT, and select Ignore Double NAT. If you do not yet see a Double NAT error, you will come back to this later).
3. Click Edit, to reach Airport Extreme Settings.
4. Select Wireless Settings. Create a Wireless Network, and follow the prompts to name it. If you have already set-up your Airport Extreme to "extend" the AT&T network, this will change it.
5. Select Internet. Connect Using DHCP.
6. Select Network. Router Mode should be DHCP and NAT.
7. In Network settings, select Network Options. Enable NAT Port Mapping Protocol.
8. Now, once you've done this, if you see the Double NAT error for the Airport Extreme in you main network diagram screen, select Ignore Double NAT.

Your Airport Extreme will restart (this mary take several minutes until the blinking amber light turns solid green). Your Apple/AT&T network will now be happy. Note that I did not turn-off the "Wireless" on my AT&T Arris router; this does not seem to be a problem -- both the AT&T and Airport Extreme wireless signals are available, with the Airport Extreme significantly stronger and faster.

Thank you so much, this was EXACTLY what I needed. My old UVerse gateway started failing in the wifi area of the unit. AT&T was surprisingly fast and helpful at identifying the problem, and having a new unit at my house within hours. Initially, the new unit worked fine, no problems at all. But within days devices started dropping the wifi left and right, would work for a short time after rebooting, then drop out again.

I had my system previously configured with the Uverse as the wireless router and the Apple Extreme as an "extender" wired via ethernet cable. I also had a second unit, an Apple Express, coming off of the Apple Extreme to run out to the garage. (Brick wall made signals very weak).

Eliezerw, just as you noted, the new Uverse wireless router seems to have conflicts with the above setup. So I took your advice and for the first time set up an Apple Extreme network in the house, to co-exist with the Uverse 2Wiire network. As you pointed out, red flags came up regarding a "Double NAT Error", but once I hit "ignore", the whose system has been performing flawlessly with computers, iPhones, tablets, AppleTVs, etc. Speeds have been truly impressive.

Just to solve the whole "home sharing" and other issues, I am planning on turning off the Uverse wireless and replacing the lost signal strength with either another airport express or extreme. Right now its kind of funny watching my iPhone switch from 2Wire network to Apple network as I walk through the home.

Just a note. It would be helpful to clarify when a lay person like myself should use the "WAN" versus the "ethernet/LAN" jacks on the back of the Airport devices. Sometimes I scratch my head and just try one, not knowing.

A couple of calls to AppleCare put me in touch with a brilliant AppleCare Senior Advisor, who finally set the matter straight (a conflict in pathways, as set-up by AT&T ConnectTech), not only regarding the problem with Netflix but for the AirportExtreme/AT&T U-verse set-up in its entirety.

This is strange, since the first thing that Apple support will do if you call them to say that you are having trouble with Back To My Mac, Port Mapping, or accessing online gaming sites.....is to make sure that you are NOT trying to run your network with a Double NAT error.

So, while you might be able to get away with a Double NAT error on a simple home network, it is a deal killer for any of the services mentioned above, since "ignoring" the error will not make it go away.

When I have tried the Double NAT setup, browsing slows down noticeably, and I am not able to access some sites at some times. It's not for me, but some users do seem to have better luck with errors on their network than I do.

To possible future responders to this thread:

I am a lay person that doesn't quite get the details of networks and how they relate to UVerse. My current set up is a new UVerse gateway, as of May 2015, along with an Airport Express and Extreme. Coming off the RG, is an ethernet cable connected to a NetGear gigabit switcher/hub to provide 8 additional ports. My TVs are plugged into them, as well as Denon AVR receivers. Also coming off the RG is a cable to my Airport Extreme, which previously was set in "Extension" or bridge mode. Coming off the Extreme was an Airport Express. When in the home, there was no previous "Apple" network, only the 2Wire network. This worked fine until the above issues arose in May 2015 with the new UVerse Gateway. Please see the above changes described.

1. In the past, it seemed that the best solution to connecting Airports and UVerse gateways was always to use the Apple gear in "bridge" or extension mode. I never quite understood why.

2. Many people talked about using the apple equipment, Airport Extremes and Expresses, while turning off the WiFi radio on the the ATT Residential Gateway. I never quite understood why this would or would not work well.

3. What advantages are there to turning off the RG radio and using an Apple Wifi network? Is the RG still the router in this instance?

Also coming off the RG is a cable to my Airport Extreme, which previously was set in "Extension" or bridge mode.

"Extend a wireless network" is not the correct setting, since it is used only when you connect an AirPort router to another AirPort router using wireless. You are using Ethernet to connect.

Many people talked about using the apple equipment, Airport Extremes and Expresses, while turning off the WiFi radio on the the ATT Residential Gateway. I never quite understood why this would or would not work well.

Two wireless routers in close proximity to each other can sometimes create wireless interference effects between the two networks, degrading the performance of both networks. If you can get away with using two routers close together, both broadcasting a wireless signal, then there is no reason to change things around.

But, if the wireless networks are having problems, then turning one of them off is necessary to eliminate the interference effects.

What advantages are there to turning off the RG radio and using an Apple Wifi network? Is the RG still the router in this instance?

See above. The RG is performing routing functions, no matter whether the wireless is "on", or "off".

When you run Double NAT, you are running two devices, and they are both trying to perform routing functions on the same network. This can lead to IP address conflicts and other problems on some networks and not others. Normally, you only want one device acting as a router for the network, to minimize the chances of errors occurring on the network.

Thank you so much for your reply as always. So to clarify, if the AT&T gateway is broadcasting its 2Wire network, and the connected Apple equipment, Extremes and Expresses have been set to "create a new network" which is named, say, "Pizza Network", both the RG and the Airport Extreme are doing wireless routing. (I assume the RG continues to do other routing of other equipment that is not wireless). Meaning if your iPad is seeing both networks, you select which network you want, and it will then get assigned an IP address. This set up creates the NAT problems, correct?

If you turn off the RG wireless radio, and the connected apple equipment is set to create a new network ("Pizza Network"), the RG will continue to do non-wireless routing and the Apple Equipment will perform wireless routing, correct? Are there conflicts with this set up? Are there advantages to this set up because of inherent capabilities of the Airport Extreme (such as guest networks and such)?

Finally, I understand what you are saying when you say "extend a wireless network" is not the same as creating an extended network via ethernet cable, which I think is called a "roaming" style network. What setting should I set the Apple Extreme to if I decide to simply have it be a wireless access for the 2Wire network (connected via ethernet cable).

Brian 79,

I think you have the concept well in control. Use the settings from my original post, remembering to "Ignore Double NAT." One of the earlier replies in this string suggests that "ignoring" means that the underlying problem persists, and may cause conflicts; however, I have noted no problems with web connections, speed or otherwise, which remain superb.

Also, I, as well, am about to shut-off the Wireless capability on my AT&T modem-router, even though keeping it active has resulted in no serious problems -- only that my wireless devices (MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPad) sometimes switch between the two active wireless signals. I would always select the Airport Extreme network as first choice -- it is faster and stronger throughout the house -- but I don't now how to make it the Default, and I don't know why, on entering the house, my iPhone would sometimes select the AT&T network. Anyway, I'll see what happens when I shut-off AT&Ts wireless radio.

eliezerw

however, I have noted no problems with web connections, speed or otherwise, which remain superb.

And, you are not using advanced features like Back To My Mac, Port Mapping, or trying to use a game console to play interactively online.

If you were, things would be a lot less than superb....and the same Apple "tech" that you spoke to earlier would be telling you to change the current setting on your Apple router to avoid the Double NAT.

But, forgetting about these advanced features for a moment, perhaps you could explain why, when I use a Double NAT setup, Internet browsing is noticeably slower, and at times, some sites will not load at all, while other sites will......and when I don't use Double NAT, the speed on the network returns to normal, and browsing errors do not occur.

Or, explain why......when you use Apple's setup "wizard" to configure a new product.....which uses Apple software to analyze the network and automatically suggest the correct network settings......that the "wizard" will suggest a setup that avoids Double NAT.

In effect, the Apple "tech" is telling you to avoid what Apple recommends in their setup software and in their support documents. Strange.

As I said, sometimes you can get away with a Double NAT on a simple network, which yours must be....otherwise, you would not be getting away with it. There's no harm in doing this, if it works for you. What you cannot do is predict how well....or even if....it will work for another user on another network, unless you have an amazing crystal ball.

All that you can really say here is that it works for you and suggest that another user try it to see if it will work for them.

Are there conflicts with this set up?

There will be Double NAT with this setup. Whether that might be a conflict or not, I cannot say how your network and your equipment may or may not be affected by the Double NAT.

but I don't now how to make it the Default

You can do this on a Mac, but not on a mobile device like the iPhone or iPad. If you turn off the ATT wireless though, then the mobile device will connect to the Apple network. The Mac will also connect to the Apple network, since it will not see the ATT wireless any longer.

and I don't know why, on entering the house, my iPhone would sometimes select the AT&T network.

The iPhone tends to select the stronger network when it starts up. If the iPhone picks up the ATT network, then it "thinks" the ATT signal is the better quality signal at that location. It may or may not be correct in its choice.

Bob, I guess the specific question I am trying to get at is, if you turn off the RG wifi radio, and have it handle the routing on all the ethernet ports, but use your Apple extreme to create the wireless network only, does that still mean you will be getting "Double NAT" conflicts? I want to be able to use "back to my mac" and other features on the Airport...I don't want to use the RG network (and using the Apple equipment simply as bridges to extend the 2Wire network), unless someone can tell me why this is the better setup.

I just want to make an informed decision, and to more importantly, understand my own set up in my home.