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Level 1

1 points

Setting up Airport Extreme 802.11ac

this is a continuation from this thread:

I have added a new AX to my network. The plan was to take the older AX and use to extend. I also have an older A Xpress that I have re-purposed to get my audio receiver on the network, but did not want it to extend the network.

After getting everything set up I started experiencing severe drops in internet speed and signal. Looking into things I came across the above thread and followed the advice to set up without WAN connected and selecting double NAT rather than bridge. At first I could not get to work (AX would not show on network: it was on ethernet, not wifi) but eventually got everything to go as described. It now shows as being in double NAT mode but I am not convinced this is correct. When I analyze the network via Airport Utility it sometimes shows that the Airport units cannot be found. If I do this from my iPad, it only shows if I re-start the iPad.

I know nothing about what Double NAT is or why this is supposed to correct the issue. Just want some validation that this all makes sense. Attached are some screen shots

Airport Extreme 802.11 ac v7.73

Posted on Oct 6, 2014 12:03 PM

50 replies

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 20, 2014 9:46 PM in response to Loner T

I Can't access the adapters because the software is windows only. There may be a way through the browser but I have not tried. As an experiment I switched the AEBS to STATIC and entered in info manually. So far they have worked fine. I don't know much about this or if it's correct...like I said it's an experiment. I called Actiotech support and the guy was downright rude. Told me what I'm trying to do can't be done and that I need all actiontech wireless routers to do what I want. Who knows......

Loner T

Level 9

59,477 points

Oct 21, 2014 6:05 AM in response to patfraley

My experiences with ActionTec Support have been less than stellar as well. The contract with VZ has made them arrogant, and they do not seem to care as the incumbent vendor. The Install Guide used was provided by ActionTec. Let me find out if there is a method to get to it via a web browser.

I am not sure what the return window for you adapters is. If these do not work to you satisfaction, you may want to consider returning these and revisit other alternatives.

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 21, 2014 5:01 PM in response to Loner T

Loner T wrote:

My experiences with ActionTec Support have been less than stellar as well. The contract with VZ has made them arrogant, and they do not seem to care as the incumbent vendor. The Install Guide used was provided by ActionTec. Let me find out if there is a method to get to it via a web browser.

I am not sure what the return window for you adapters is. If these do not work to you satisfaction, you may want to consider returning these and revisit other alternatives.

It was bought off Amazon so return policy is good. I will play with it a bit more and then may switch to ethernet if I can't get it right. It's strange.....The wireless is still there with a solid green light but no internet and devices will not connect (except for main AEBS...works fine). I even switched them back to DHCP and the are still acting strange.

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 21, 2014 5:03 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Bob Timmons wrote:

Good luck on the network!

We can go over how to setup the AirPorts with the iPad if you wish at a later time.

Please keep us posted.

Bob...feel free to offer any input. I am at a loss

thanks guys!

Loner T

Level 9

59,477 points

Oct 21, 2014 5:50 PM in response to patfraley

If these are new AEBSs (the tall AC ones), there is a similar problem - Re: DHCP/NAT to wired clients not working.

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 21, 2014 6:50 PM in response to Loner T

Loner T wrote:

If these are new AEBSs (the tall AC ones), there is a similar problem - Re: DHCP/NAT to wired clients not working.

lots of things to discuss...

"The main AEBS receives a public IP from Comcast via DHCP, there's no getting around that. The second AEBS has always used plain DHCP with a reservation of 10.0.1.254 over wireless. I switch it to manual today, no changes. Clients connected via ethernet to the main AEBS do not retrieve their IPs, reservation or not. Wired clients connected to the second AEBS acting as a bridge have no problem retrieving IPs. It is some sort of problem with the ethernet config on the 'master' AEBS only."

so in the above post, is that a similar set up to mine? I am confused why the main AEBS would effect the other AEBS's since they are all creating there own network.??

To answer your question, my main AEBS is the newer tall version and the two secondary AEBS are older, flat models.

I came across this blog which has lots of useful information: http://mocablog.net/vz-fios/

on that blog I came across this, which may explain things: A MOCA LAN bridge can not be used between the ONT and the WAN port of a user router. MOCA WAN operates on a different frequency than MOCA LAN

pretty sure this is what I am trying to do so it could be the Actiontech guy was correct (though he still didn't have to be so rude)

maybe what I need is a WAN router to replace adapter? Either that or switch to ethernet

this make any sense?

Oct 21, 2014 6:50 PM in response to patfraley

Sorry, but I had to drop out of this discussion when the co-ax to Ethernet adapters came into play.

I don't have any of these devices here to work with and test......and I don't have any hands on experience with the Actiontec modem/router that employs this type of communication.

I can probably offer some ideas if all devices will be connecting using Ethernet, if you want to try that route.

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 21, 2014 6:51 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Bob Timmons wrote:

Sorry, but I had to drop out of this discussion when the co-ax to Ethernet adapters came into play.

I don't have any of these devices here to work with and test......and I don't have any hands on experience with the Actiontec modem/router that employs this type of communication.

I can probably offer some ideas if all devices will be connecting using Ethernet, if you want to try that route.

well.....stay tuned. That just may be where this is all heading 😕

Loner T

Level 9

59,477 points

Oct 21, 2014 7:32 PM in response to patfraley

I would like to suggest a couple of things.

1. The install guide I referenced shows the setup in no unambiguous terms, and it works, but has durability issues, not functionality issues. If the ActionTec person was correct, it should never have worked in the first place. I have every reason to disagree with the ActionTec person. Why would fit work for 1 hour and then die. If there are router DHCP issues ("flapping") that is a much easier pill for me to consider taking.

2. Remove the Tall AC and just use two old flat AEBSs one at FIOS router, the other on second room. Please test, if possible.

3. Is there an STB in the second room or a TV which is connected to the TVOUT of the EC2500? Are there any video issues when the AEBS in second room loses connectivity, or any point in time?

4. The Ethernet route is definitely simpler, but the rewiring being a labor-intensive affair is why this is being tested.

I have had this setup in my old house from 1997-2006 and it worked very well. The difference was that I was using an older MI424WR (https://www.verizon.com/Support/Residential/Internet/fiosinternet/networking/set up/actiontecmi424/127288.htm), before these new rounded ones came up. There was no ethernet wiring in the old house and a single coax all over the house, so I used it as both Cable and Ethernet. It was using an Motorola QIP 6416, IIRC.

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 22, 2014 12:15 PM in response to Loner T

Loner T wrote:

I would like to suggest a couple of things.

1. The install guide I referenced shows the setup in no unambiguous terms, and it works, but has durability issues, not functionality issues. If the ActionTec person was correct, it should never have worked in the first place. I have every reason to disagree with the ActionTec person. Why would fit work for 1 hour and then die. If there are router DHCP issues ("flapping") that is a much easier pill for me to consider taking.

2. Remove the Tall AC and just use two old flat AEBSs one at FIOS router, the other on second room. Please test, if possible.

3. Is there an STB in the second room or a TV which is connected to the TVOUT of the EC2500? Are there any video issues when the AEBS in second room loses connectivity, or any point in time?

4. The Ethernet route is definitely simpler, but the rewiring being a labor-intensive affair is why this is being tested.

I have had this setup in my old house from 1997-2006 and it worked very well. The difference was that I was using an older MI424WR (https://www.verizon.com/Support/Residential/Internet/fiosinternet/networking/set up/actiontecmi424/127288.htm), before these new rounded ones came up. There was no ethernet wiring in the old house and a single coax all over the house, so I used it as both Cable and Ethernet. It was using an Motorola QIP 6416, IIRC.

OK...did as instructed and removed tall AEBS and it worked for a bit then no dice. What's interesting is the AEBS connected to the main Fios router went out too. That's the first time that has happened. Before....the tall AEBS would always stay connected...regardless of the others.

Finally....what's really interesting...is the green lights stay solid. Devices just can't connect. Sometimes they see the network and sometimes they don't....sometimes they connect....sometimes they don't.

ugh

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 22, 2014 12:21 PM in response to patfraley

hold on....the tall AEBS was still powered up (but not connected to internet) and i think it was causing the issue. I report again later

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 23, 2014 10:12 AM in response to Loner T

Loner T wrote:

I would like to suggest a couple of things.

1. The install guide I referenced shows the setup in no unambiguous terms, and it works, but has durability issues, not functionality issues. If the ActionTec person was correct, it should never have worked in the first place. I have every reason to disagree with the ActionTec person. Why would fit work for 1 hour and then die. If there are router DHCP issues ("flapping") that is a much easier pill for me to consider taking.

2. Remove the Tall AC and just use two old flat AEBSs one at FIOS router, the other on second room. Please test, if possible.

3. Is there an STB in the second room or a TV which is connected to the TVOUT of the EC2500? Are there any video issues when the AEBS in second room loses connectivity, or any point in time?

4. The Ethernet route is definitely simpler, but the rewiring being a labor-intensive affair is why this is being tested.

I have had this setup in my old house from 1997-2006 and it worked very well. The difference was that I was using an older MI424WR (https://www.verizon.com/Support/Residential/Internet/fiosinternet/networking/set up/actiontecmi424/127288.htm), before these new rounded ones came up. There was no ethernet wiring in the old house and a single coax all over the house, so I used it as both Cable and Ethernet. It was using an Motorola QIP 6416, IIRC.

ok...so far so good with tall AEBS out of the loop. I came across this regarding using LAN to LAN to set up a WAP:

3. Secondary LAN-to-LAN

LAN-to-LAN connection between Actiontec and user router. User router becomes a switch. WAN connection and firewall not used in user router. LAN DHCP server should be disabled in the user router. Instructions are detailed in this FAQ: »Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I use my wireless or an extra router along with the Verizon provided router?

PRO:

• Easy.

• Avoids double-NATing. Port Forwards are configured in the Actiontec only.

• Good choice, if all you need is to connect your 802.11n router as a Wireless Access Point (WAP).

• VZ support for Actiontec.

• All current STB functionality supported. Guide, VOD, widgets, Remote DVR, On Screen Caller ID.

• Still subject to small NAT table in early (GEN1) Actiontecs. Does not apply to the Westell's larger NAT table.

is this something that is worth trying on the tall AEBS? I would still like to find a way to get it into the system

Loner T

Level 9

59,477 points

Oct 23, 2014 1:00 PM in response to patfraley

By putting the AEBS in Bridged mode, as Bob indicated in his procedure, the AEBS is just a switch which gets an IP from the VZ router. You already have this in place. Is there any improvement when the AC AEBS is not in the mix?

patfraley Author

Level 1

1 points

Oct 23, 2014 1:54 PM in response to Loner T

Loner T wrote:

By putting the AEBS in Bridged mode, as Bob indicated in his procedure, the AEBS is just a switch which gets an IP from the VZ router. You already have this in place. Is there any improvement when the AC AEBS is not in the mix?

yes....as mentioned above so far it is working. Need more time, though, because previously it worked fine for a few days before it wen't sideways, so may be too early to tell for certain.

I brought up the other idea as it is a different setup than I currently have. This would bypass Fios router and send all IP info directly to AEBS AC....it eliminates using a WAN port. I may be misunderstanding but might be worth a try as I would still like to work the AEBS AC into the system to help beef up the wireless

Loner T

Level 9

59,477 points

Oct 23, 2014 2:38 PM in response to patfraley

I think what you are saying is to remove the VZ router, connect the tall AEBS to the VZ ONT (via an ethernet cable) and then use the ActionTec ECB2500s to use the LAN ports on the AC AEBS. As long as the AC AEBS can authenticate with the VZ infrastructure, it is worth a test.

I agree that you should let the current setup run a few more days to confer reliability and consistency.

Setting up Airport Extreme 802.11ac