hunttvillage

Q: Yosemite made my MacBook Pro so slow. Need help.

I Upgraded my MBP (2012), from Mavericks to Yosemite and it slowed my computer down to the point where it became unusable.  I repaired the permissions, and even reinstalled Yosemite but it didn't help.  My MBP is crawling and I'm hoping someone can walk me through a solution.  Need help.

 

SIgned,

YoseMighty Slow

MacBook Pro, OS X Mavericks (10.9.2)

Posted on Oct 19, 2014 12:31 PM

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Q: Yosemite made my MacBook Pro so slow. Need help.

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  • by HappyMac123,

    HappyMac123 HappyMac123 Jan 12, 2015 6:52 PM in response to hunttvillage
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 12, 2015 6:52 PM in response to hunttvillage

    Can you help me with my slow Mac? 


    Problem description:

    Mac Book Pro is running super slow after installing Yosemite.

    The program Numbers is so slow I can barely use it. 203 GB free of 318 GB.

     

    Model Name: MacBook Pro

      Model Identifier: MacBookPro8,1

      Processor Name: Intel Core i5

      Processor Speed: 2.3 GHz

      Number of Processors: 1

      Total Number of Cores: 2

      L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB

      L3 Cache: 3 MB

      Memory: 4 GB

     

    EtreCheck version: 2.1.5 (108)

    Report generated January 12, 2015 at 8:31:47 PM CST

     

    Click the [Support] links for help with non-Apple products.

    Click the [Details] links for more information about that line.

    Click the [Adware] links for help removing adware.

     

    Hardware Information: ℹ️

      MacBook Pro (13-inch, Early 2011) (Verified)

      MacBook Pro - model: MacBookPro8,1

      1 2.3 GHz Intel Core i5 CPU: 2-core

      4 GB RAM Upgradeable

      BANK 0/DIMM0

      2 GB DDR3 1333 MHz ok

      BANK 1/DIMM0

      2 GB DDR3 1333 MHz ok

      Bluetooth: Old - Handoff/Airdrop2 not supported

      Wireless:  en1: 802.11 a/b/g/n

     

    Video Information: ℹ️

      Intel HD Graphics 3000 - VRAM: 384 MB

      Color LCD 1280 x 800

     

    System Software: ℹ️

      OS X 10.10.1 (14B25) - Uptime: 5:14:45

     

    Disk Information: ℹ️

      Hitachi HTS545032B9A302 disk0 : (320.07 GB)

      EFI (disk0s1) <not mounted> : 210 MB

      Recovery HD (disk0s3) <not mounted>  [Recovery]: 650 MB

      Silver Mac (disk1) / : 318.84 GB (203.86 GB free)

      Encrypted AES-XTS Unlocked

      Core Storage: disk0s2 319.21 GB Online

     

      MATSHITADVD-R   UJ-8A8

     

    USB Information: ℹ️

      Apple Inc. FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)

      Apple Inc. Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad

      Apple Inc. BRCM2070 Hub

      Apple Inc. Bluetooth USB Host Controller

      Apple Computer, Inc. IR Receiver

     

    Thunderbolt Information: ℹ️

      Apple Inc. thunderbolt_bus

     

    Gatekeeper: ℹ️

      Anywhere

     

    Launch Agents: ℹ️

      [running] com.google.keystone.agent.plist [Support]

     

    Launch Daemons: ℹ️

      [loaded] com.adobe.fpsaud.plist [Support]

      [running] com.google.keystone.daemon.plist [Support]

     

    User Login Items: ℹ️

      SpeechSynthesisServer Application (/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks /SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesisServer.app)

      Dropbox Application (/Applications/Dropbox.app)

      Safari Application (/Applications/Safari.app)

      Google Chrome ApplicationHidden (/Applications/Google Chrome.app)

     

    Internet Plug-ins: ℹ️

      Flip4Mac WMV Plugin: Version: 2.3.8.1 [Support]

      FlashPlayer-10.6: Version: 15.0.0.246 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      Default Browser: Version: 600 - SDK 10.10

      Flash Player: Version: 15.0.0.246 - SDK 10.6 Mismatch! Adobe recommends 16.0.0.235

      QuickTime Plugin: Version: 7.7.3

      o1dbrowserplugin: Version: 5.38.6.0 - SDK 10.8 [Support]

      googletalkbrowserplugin: Version: 5.38.6.0 - SDK 10.8 [Support]

      Silverlight: Version: 5.1.30514.0 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      iPhotoPhotocast: Version: 7.0 - SDK 10.7

     

    User internet Plug-ins: ℹ️

      CitrixOnlineWebDeploymentPlugin: Version: 1.0.105 [Support]

      Picasa: Version: 1.0 [Support]

     

    3rd Party Preference Panes: ℹ️

      Flash Player  [Support]

      Flip4Mac WMV  [Support]

     

    Time Machine: ℹ️

      Skip System Files: NO

      Auto backup: NO - Auto backup turned off

      Volumes being backed up:

      Silver Mac: Disk size: 318.84 GB Disk used: 114.98 GB

      Destinations:

      Seagate Backup Plus Drive [Local]

      Total size: 0 B

      Total number of backups: 18

      Oldest backup: 2014-06-28 03:01:32 +0000

      Last backup: 2014-12-26 22:44:34 +0000

      Size of backup disk: Too small

      Backup size 0 B < (Disk used 114.98 GB X 3)

     

    Top Processes by CPU: ℹ️

          6% ksfetch

          5% WindowServer

          3% GoogleSoftwareUpdateDaemon

          1% Google Chrome

          0% GoogleTalkPlugin

     

    Top Processes by Memory: ℹ️

      210 MB Google Chrome

      137 MB Numbers

      125 MB Google Chrome Helper

      107 MB Image Capture Extension

      94 MB CalendarAgent

     

    Virtual Memory Information: ℹ️

      91 MB Free RAM

      1.58 GB Active RAM

      1.51 GB Inactive RAM

      1.08 GB Wired RAM

      4.98 GB Page-ins

      37 MB Page-outs

     

    Diagnostics Information: ℹ️

      Jan 12, 2015, 03:17:37 PM Self test - passed

      Jan 10, 2015, 11:27:26 PM /Users/[redacted]/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/garcon_2015-01-10-232726_[reda cted].crash

      Jan 10, 2015, 09:14:56 PM /Users/[redacted]/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/Pages_2015-01-10-211456_[redac ted].crash

  • by charisdesigns,

    charisdesigns charisdesigns Jan 13, 2015 1:44 PM in response to hunttvillage
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 13, 2015 1:44 PM in response to hunttvillage

    Problem description:

    Since installing Yosemite, system runs extremely slow. Finder takes forever to load a new window. Mail causes memory leaks/crashes/freezes. Force quit via CMD OPTN ESC will not work. Safari is slow and causes memory leaks. Nothing works fluidly or smoothly anymore. Feels like me machine is now crippled.

     

    EtreCheck version: 2.1.5 (108)

    Report generated January 13, 2015 at 1:38:31 PM PST

     

    Click the [Support] links for help with non-Apple products.

    Click the [Details] links for more information about that line.

    Click the [Adware] links for help removing adware.

     

    Hardware Information: ℹ️

      Mac Pro (Early 2008) (Verified)

      Mac Pro - model: MacPro3,1

      2 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon CPU: 8-core

      16 GB RAM Upgradeable

      DIMM Riser B/DIMM 1

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      DIMM Riser B/DIMM 2

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      DIMM Riser A/DIMM 1

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      DIMM Riser A/DIMM 2

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      DIMM Riser B/DIMM 3

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      DIMM Riser B/DIMM 4

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      DIMM Riser A/DIMM 3

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      DIMM Riser A/DIMM 4

      2 GB DDR2 FB-DIMM 800 MHz ok

      Bluetooth: Old - Handoff/Airdrop2 not supported

      Wireless:  en2: 802.11 a/b/g/n

     

    Video Information: ℹ️

      NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 - VRAM: 512 MB

      Cinema HD 1920 x 1200

     

    System Software: ℹ️

      OS X 10.10.1 (14B25) - Uptime: 3:40:56

     

    Disk Information: ℹ️

      ST3500630AS P disk2 : (500.11 GB)

      EFI (disk2s1) <not mounted> : 210 MB

      Macintosh HD (disk2s2) / : 480.00 GB (91.58 GB free)

      Recovery HD (disk2s3) <not mounted>  [Recovery]: 650 MB

     

      WDC WD5000AAKS-40YGA0 disk0 : (500.11 GB)

      EFI (disk0s1) <not mounted> : 210 MB

      Macintosh HD2 (disk0s2) /Volumes/Macintosh HD2 : 499.76 GB (223.33 GB free)

     

      Hitachi HDE721010SLA330 disk1 : (1 TB)

      EFI (disk1s1) <not mounted> : 210 MB

      Macintosh HD3 (disk1s2) /Volumes/Macintosh HD3 : 999.86 GB (310.26 GB free)

     

    USB Information: ℹ️

      Seagate BUP Slim RD 2 TB

      MAC PRO3 (disk3s1) /Volumes/MAC PRO3 : 1.00 TB (314.30 GB free)

      FINAL CUT (disk3s2) /Volumes/FINAL CUT : 1.00 TB (388.37 GB free)

      Apple, Inc. Keyboard Hub

      Apple Inc. Apple Keyboard

      Apple Computer, Inc. Apple Cinema HD Display

      Apple Inc. Bluetooth USB Host Controller

     

    Gatekeeper: ℹ️

      Mac App Store and identified developers

     

    Kernel Extensions: ℹ️

      /Applications/Parallels Desktop.app

      [loaded] com.parallels.kext.hypervisor (10.1.2 28859 - SDK 10.7) [Support]

      [loaded] com.parallels.kext.netbridge (10.1.2 28859 - SDK 10.7) [Support]

      [loaded] com.parallels.kext.usbconnect (10.1.2 28859 - SDK 10.7) [Support]

      [loaded] com.parallels.kext.vnic (10.1.2 28859 - SDK 10.7) [Support]

     

      /System/Library/Extensions

      [loaded] com.eltima.ElmediaPlayer.kext (1.0) [Support]

     

    Launch Daemons: ℹ️

      [loaded] com.adobe.fpsaud.plist [Support]

      [running] com.eltima.ElmediaPlayer.daemon.plist [Support]

     

    User Launch Agents: ℹ️

      [running] com.c-command.SpamSieve.LaunchAgent.plist [Support]

     

    User Login Items: ℹ️

      Dropbox Application (/Applications/Dropbox.app)

     

    Internet Plug-ins: ℹ️

      JavaAppletPlugin: Version: 15.0.0 - SDK 10.10 Check version

      FlashPlayer-10.6: Version: 16.0.0.257 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      QuickTime Plugin: Version: 7.7.3

      Flash Player: Version: 16.0.0.257 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      Default Browser: Version: 600 - SDK 10.10

      DivXBrowserPlugin: Version: 2.0 [Support]

      Silverlight: Version: 4.0.60531.0 [Support]

      iPhotoPhotocast: Version: 7.0

     

    User internet Plug-ins: ℹ️

      Stamps.com: Version: 1.1.12 [Support]

     

    Safari Extensions: ℹ️

      OpenIE [Installed]

     

    3rd Party Preference Panes: ℹ️

      DivX  [Support]

      Flash Player  [Support]

      Perian  [Support]

     

    Bad Fonts: ℹ️

      Voodoo Doll.ttf: /Users/ProctorSurf/Library/Fonts/Voodoo Doll.ttf

     

     

      SUGAR.TTF: /Users/ProctorSurf/Library/Fonts/SUGAR.TTF

     

     

    Time Machine: ℹ️

      Skip System Files: NO

      Mobile backups: OFF

      Auto backup: NO - Auto backup turned off

      Volumes being backed up:

      Macintosh HD: Disk size: 480.00 GB Disk used: 388.42 GB

      Destinations:

      surfcap [Network]

      Total size: 0 B

      Total number of backups: 0

      Oldest backup: -

      Last backup: -

      Size of backup disk: Too small

      Backup size 0 B < (Disk used 388.42 GB X 3)

     

    Top Processes by CPU: ℹ️

          26% Mail

          21% prl_vm_app

          9% WindowServer

          6% launchd

          1% prl_client_app

     

    Top Processes by Memory: ℹ️

      464 MB mds_stores

      429 MB Finder

      429 MB Mail

      344 MB prl_vm_app

      344 MB prl_client_app

     

    Virtual Memory Information: ℹ️

      2.72 GB Free RAM

      7.26 GB Active RAM

      4.29 GB Inactive RAM

      2.91 GB Wired RAM

      5.60 GB Page-ins

      705 KB Page-outs

     

    Diagnostics Information: ℹ️

      Jan 13, 2015, 09:58:10 AM - Self test - failed [Details]

      Jan 12, 2015, 07:35:45 PM /Users/[redacted]/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/Final Cut Pro_2015-01-12-193545_[redacted].crash [Details]

      Jan 12, 2015, 03:39:54 PM /Users/[redacted]/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/PhotoStreamAgent_2015-01-12-15 3954_[redacted].crash

     

      Standard users cannot read /Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports.

      Run as an administrator account to see more information.

  • by John Galt,

    John Galt John Galt Jan 13, 2015 1:56 PM in response to charisdesigns
    Level 9 (50,389 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 13, 2015 1:56 PM in response to charisdesigns

    Diagnostics Information: ℹ️

      Jan 13, 2015, 09:58:10 AM - Self test - failed [Details]

     

    Might that be a clue? Just a guess.

  • by charisdesigns,

    charisdesigns charisdesigns Jan 13, 2015 2:04 PM in response to John Galt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 13, 2015 2:04 PM in response to John Galt

    if it is a clue, I have no idea at all how to interpret it?  Don't know what that means? Does anyone else?

  • by John Galt,

    John Galt John Galt Jan 13, 2015 2:18 PM in response to charisdesigns
    Level 9 (50,389 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 13, 2015 2:18 PM in response to charisdesigns

    Start by posting your own question in the appropriate forum:

     

    Mac Pro

     

    You aren't using a MacBook Pro, and if it's a hardware test that failed you will need assistance specific to your model Mac.

  • by etresoft,

    etresoft etresoft Jan 13, 2015 4:50 PM in response to charisdesigns
    Level 7 (29,380 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 13, 2015 4:50 PM in response to charisdesigns

    charisdesigns wrote:

     

    if it is a clue, I have no idea at all how to interpret it?  Don't know what that means? Does anyone else?

    As others have said, start your own thread. The first step to interpreting the error is to click the "[Details]" link.

  • by Norppis_90,

    Norppis_90 Norppis_90 Jan 14, 2015 9:06 AM in response to hunttvillage
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2015 9:06 AM in response to hunttvillage

    Problem description:

    Yosemite slowed my computer MB Pro mid 2012, lags all the time, with just Safari open it took me 40 minutes to come here and write this... Boyfriends computer works fine. Help me please, I have to work using this machine and I don't have the funds nor the time to take it someplace where they could do something. Could you offer some insight on what to do by myself? I'm not a nerdy girl so please explain as simply as you can. Thanks a bunch!

     

    EtreCheck version: 2.1.5 (108)

    Report generated 14. tammikuuta 2015 18.54.50 UTC+2

     

    Click the [Support] links for help with non-Apple products.

    Click the [Details] links for more information about that line.

    Click the [Adware] links for help removing adware.

     

    Hardware Information: ℹ️

      MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) (Verified)

      MacBook Pro - model: MacBookPro9,2

      1 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5 CPU: 2-core

      4 GB RAM Upgradeable

      BANK 0/DIMM0

      2 GB DDR3 1600 MHz ok

      BANK 1/DIMM0

      2 GB DDR3 1600 MHz ok

      Bluetooth: Good - Handoff/Airdrop2 supported

      Wireless:  en1: 802.11 a/b/g/n

     

    Video Information: ℹ️

      Intel HD Graphics 4000

      Color LCD 1280 x 800

     

    System Software: ℹ️

      OS X 10.10.1 (14B25) - Uptime: 3 days 9:14:27

     

    Disk Information: ℹ️

      APPLE HDD HTS545050A7E362 disk0 : (500,11 GB)

      EFI (disk0s1) <not mounted> : 210 MB

      Recovery HD (disk0s3) <not mounted>  [Recovery]: 650 MB

      Macintosh HD (disk1) / : 498.88 GB (428.21 GB free) - 109 errors

     

      Encrypted AES-XTS Unlocked

      Core Storage: disk0s2 499.25 GB Online

     

      MATSHITADVD-R   UJ-8A8 

     

    USB Information: ℹ️

      Apple Inc. FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)

      Apple Inc. BRCM20702 Hub

      Apple Inc. Bluetooth USB Host Controller

      Apple Inc. Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad

      Apple Computer, Inc. IR Receiver

     

    Thunderbolt Information: ℹ️

      Apple Inc. thunderbolt_bus

     

    Gatekeeper: ℹ️

      Mac App Store and identified developers

     

    Problem System Launch Agents: ℹ️

      [killed] com.apple.CallHistoryPluginHelper.plist

      [killed] com.apple.CallHistorySyncHelper.plist

      [killed] com.apple.Maps.pushdaemon.plist

      [killed] com.apple.sbd.plist

      [killed] com.apple.telephonyutilities.callservicesd.plist

      [killed] com.apple.warmd_agent.plist

      6 processes killed due to memory pressure

     

    Problem System Launch Daemons: ℹ️

      [killed] com.apple.AssetCacheLocatorService.plist

      [killed] com.apple.awdd.plist

      [killed] com.apple.ctkd.plist

      [killed] com.apple.nehelper.plist

      [killed] com.apple.periodic-daily.plist

      [killed] com.apple.periodic-weekly.plist

      [killed] com.apple.softwareupdate_download_service.plist

      [killed] com.apple.tccd.system.plist

      [killed] com.apple.wdhelper.plist

      9 processes killed due to memory pressure

     

    Launch Daemons: ℹ️

      [failed] com.adobe.fpsaud.plist [Support] [Details]

      [loaded] com.microsoft.office.licensing.helper.plist [Support]

     

    User Launch Agents: ℹ️

      [loaded] com.google.keystone.agent.plist [Support]

     

    User Login Items: ℹ️

      Flux Ohjelma (/Applications/Flux.app)

      iTunesHelper Ohjelma (/Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS/iTunesHelper.app)

      Dropbox Ohjelma (/Applications/Dropbox.app)

     

    Internet Plug-ins: ℹ️

      SharePointBrowserPlugin: Version: 14.4.7 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      FlashPlayer-10.6: Version: 16.0.0.257 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      Flash Player: Version: 16.0.0.257 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      QuickTime Plugin: Version: 7.7.3

      Silverlight: Version: 5.1.30317.0 - SDK 10.6 [Support]

      Default Browser: Version: 600 - SDK 10.10

     

    3rd Party Preference Panes: ℹ️

      Flash Player  [Support]

     

    Time Machine: ℹ️

      Time Machine not configured!

     

    Top Processes by CPU: ℹ️

          39% storedownloadd

          6% WindowServer

          2% mds

          0% AppleSpell

          0% fontd

     

    Top Processes by Memory: ℹ️

      185 MB helpd

      107 MB installd

      107 MB Finder

      86 MB Mail

      82 MB mds_stores

     

    Virtual Memory Information: ℹ️

      475 MB Free RAM

      1.39 GB Active RAM

      1.14 GB Inactive RAM

      871 MB Wired RAM

      9.51 GB Page-ins

      16 MB Page-outs

     

    Diagnostics Information: ℹ️

      Jan 14, 2015, 12:29:33 AM /Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/WindowServer_2015-01-14-002933_[redacted].cpu_r esource.diag [Details]

  • by John Galt,

    John Galt John Galt Jan 14, 2015 9:47 AM in response to Norppis_90
    Level 9 (50,389 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 14, 2015 9:47 AM in response to Norppis_90

    Back up your Mac immediately since its hard disk has failed and the information it contains may become permanently irretrievable at any time. To learn how to do that read Mac Basics: Time Machine backs up your Mac.


    You can replace your Mac's hard disk on your own or have Apple do it: Genius Bar Reservations

  • by Lexiepex,

    Lexiepex Lexiepex Jan 14, 2015 9:51 AM in response to John Galt
    Level 6 (10,536 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 14, 2015 9:51 AM in response to John Galt

    Hi John, making conclusions from an etrecheck list ?????

    Lex

  • by Lexiepex,

    Lexiepex Lexiepex Jan 14, 2015 9:57 AM in response to Norppis_90
    Level 6 (10,536 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 14, 2015 9:57 AM in response to Norppis_90

    John may be right. Backups are always necessary, do that.

    But the remark about disk failures is one thing and all the other red remarks about software unable to run because of memory pressure is something else: you are unencrypting which takes a LOT of resources and stops almost all other processes. This may take a while and in the meantime all store downloads are redownloaded/checked.

    As soon as the unencrypting has finished, start a new thread with a new etrecheck list.

    post the link here.

    Lex

  • by Norppis_90,

    Norppis_90 Norppis_90 Jan 14, 2015 10:02 AM in response to Lexiepex
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2015 10:02 AM in response to Lexiepex

    Unencrypting as in FileVault? My boyfriend checked it, it said that everything is encrypted and that the encryption is working? What is it unencrypting, sorry for being a dummy. :/ Now the computer works okay-ish but sometimes it just feels like crashing.

  • by Lexiepex,

    Lexiepex Lexiepex Jan 14, 2015 10:05 AM in response to Norppis_90
    Level 6 (10,536 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 14, 2015 10:05 AM in response to Norppis_90

    Yes encrypting and unencrypting as in file vault.

    unencrypt before you do the backups.

    Lex

  • by etresoft,

    etresoft etresoft Jan 14, 2015 10:16 AM in response to Lexiepex
    Level 7 (29,380 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 14, 2015 10:16 AM in response to Lexiepex

    OK. This thread is officially way too long and needs to stop. People are getting confused over who is reporting what. 

     

    Anyone who has an EtreCheck report that says something like this:

     

    Disk Information: ℹ️

      APPLE HDD HTS545050A7E362 disk0 : (500,11 GB)

      EFI (disk0s1) <not mounted> : 210 MB

      Recovery HD (disk0s3) <not mounted>  [Recovery]: 650 MB

      Macintosh HD (disk1) / : 498.88 GB (428.21 GB free) - 109 errors

     

    Needs to backup their machine and get a new hard drive.

     

    Anyone else needs to start their own threads or else risk getting your problem confused with 220 others. There will be plenty of time to diagnose all other Yosemite slowness problems while you files aren't being lost for all time.

  • by Lexiepex,

    Lexiepex Lexiepex Jan 14, 2015 10:25 AM in response to etresoft
    Level 6 (10,536 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 14, 2015 10:25 AM in response to etresoft

    Hi John, not always, see the other thread.

  • by Lexiepex,

    Lexiepex Lexiepex Jan 14, 2015 10:38 AM in response to etresoft
    Level 6 (10,536 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 14, 2015 10:38 AM in response to etresoft

    BTW John, I came accross a mac (from a friend, not a developer) that had a lot of entries all over from devmate; since that is used by a lot of crap like CMM and so, I removed it everywere (framework and the like). Sensible?

    Lex

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