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All replies
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Helpful answers
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Nov 5, 2014 6:31 AM in response to jjkrawby jbranc,yes there is some benefit. My thinking is to keep using it so they know its a real market. Once they see its not going away, they can optimize the POS systems to handle applepay better.
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Nov 5, 2014 11:48 AM in response to jbrancby macuser7,Roll-out is still new. Some merchants will require a signature. As long as they aren't keeping tabs on what you're buying or where you've been like CurrentC does. It's just an extra layer of security for the merchant and you. It's no big deal.
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Nov 18, 2014 7:35 AM in response to jjkrawby Bill999,By this time next year, all the major credit card companies will have switched to EMV chip cards anyway. Those cards use the same sort of security as ApplePay. At that point, Apple is really going to need a better answer to what the advantage is in using iPhone payments.
Personally, having to switch my iPhone to my left hand and trying not to drop it while I sign the terminal display is not my idea of a good user experience. If I have to fool with this, I'd rather enter a PIN. Ideally, I'd rather do neither.
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Nov 18, 2014 7:41 AM in response to Bill999by William Kucharski,You're dreaming if you think the major credit card companies will switch to chip systems within a year, two years or even five years.
There's just too much infrastructure surrounding magstripes, plus every merchant would need to get a new credit card machine and believe me the credit card companies don't pay for those, the merchants do.
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Nov 18, 2014 7:50 AM in response to William Kucharskiby Bill999,Both VISA and MasterCard have set a deadline for themselves to implement EMV chip credit cards in the US by October 2015. The trigger was the Target hack and subsequent Senate investigation. Part of the change will be a "liability shift" by which banks that don't offer the EMV chip cards assume liability for the transactions, but merchants who don't support the chip cards assume all the liability instead. This is really going to happen (almost 25 years after Europe started adopting EMV a chip cards). Google it.
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Nov 18, 2014 7:59 AM in response to Bill999by Csound1,It's reached the point where I have to search for an ATM that will accept a US (chipless) credit card anymore (in London). Very few retail outlets are equipped for such cards. So I get to be the guy holding everyone up while the merchants seek approval for the card via telephone. I opened a UK account simply for the convenience of a chipped card (which is of course useless in the USA for lack of technology).
The US is far behind the UK with POS tech.
So far Apple Pay seems no better than a chip & pin card regardless of any 'theoretical' speed and security advantage.
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Nov 18, 2014 12:26 PM in response to William Kucharskiby Thatchcote,You're wrong about how fast merchants will switch to chip readers instead of magnetic strips. In Oct 2015' liability switches from credit card companies to merchants if they continue to use magnetic strip readers. Very few merchants do any size will be willing to assume that liability. When this happens, many merchants will switch to readers that Aldo work with Apple Pay At the same time. All new cc's being issued now have a chil as well as a magnetic strip.
AS for Whole Foods requiring a signature - well, mine in Louisville KY does nor - I've used Apple Pay there often, including just an hour ago. My checker said probably have her ring-ups use Apple Pay. If this is happening in Louisville - not exactly high on a list of hip, trendy cities - then I can only imagine how many customers in Darien CT are using it at their Whole Foods! I would ask to speak to the manager and do a bit of educating.
as a woman with a handbag and a wallet, I cannot tell you how much I love Apple Pay. I keep my phone in a top pocket, pull it out and put it back. Sure beats messing with a wallet, PLUS there is little risk that AmEx will be replacing my card for a 4th time this year! Now THAT was a hassle!
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Nov 18, 2014 12:32 PM in response to Csound1by Thatchcote,Ah, you naysayers! Heck, if a very conservative, practically Victorian, 71 yr old woman thinks this is great, then surely the young and hip will as well. My ancient back will welcome the day when I can leave nearly all my credit cards at home - makes for a lighter handbag!
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Nov 19, 2014 12:23 AM in response to jbrancby Chris Luth,Just encountered a wrinkle with ApplePay requiring a signature: over here in New Zealand, where I'm traveling this month, they ALWAYS ask to see the back of my credit card after I sign to compare signatures. Having worked with POSes in the past in the U.S., I'm aware that, technically, all businesses in the U.S. should be doing this as well, but over here, since signatures are so rare and since the POS actually prompts the merchant, "Signature OK?", checking signatures is ubiquitous.
However, the POSes are apparently set up to ask the same prompt on Apple Pay transactions. This creates a dilemma, because how can I show a signature on the back of my phone to them? There isn't one.
It's caused quite a bit of confusion, although I still use it where possible for the novelty, and people invariably remark, "That's so cool--my iPhone doesn't do that!"
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Nov 21, 2014 9:39 PM in response to Chris Luthby atomic wedgie,You could take a photo of the back of your signed credit card, and pull that up on your phone
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Nov 24, 2014 9:51 AM in response to William Kucharskiby Gary Ledet,Then the Keynote demo was a huge lie. I think they stressed the ease of it to impress us.
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Nov 24, 2014 10:59 AM in response to Gary Ledetby Thatchcote,No, it was NOT a lie! Not all Whole Foods stores are requiring a signature - mine does not. And I have heard no complaints about Panera or McDonalds requiring one, either.
Apple cannot be help responsible by a decision made by a local store manager. Apple Pay does NOT require a signature!!!
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Nov 24, 2014 5:40 PM in response to jjkrawby Chattanoogan,Re: "... the big selling point for me is that my real credit card number is never exposed during the transaction ..."
Agree 100%
While I agree that the extra steps are a bit clumsy, I'm also confident that they are growing pains which will eventually be worked-out.
FWIW yesterday I was prompted to select "credt, debit, or prepaid" after "touching" ...
... I selected "credit" and the Apple Pay transaction went thru ... but it certainly was a kludgy implementation by the merchant and/or their card processor.
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Nov 25, 2014 6:04 AM in response to Chattanooganby Bill999,I think there's significant confusion about exactly what Apple Pay does and does not do. Apple's marketing strategy, IMHO, bears a lot of blame for this. A good primer might be this article: http://creditcardforum.com/blog/emv-vs-nfc/
- The security advantages of Apple Pay are potentially terrific, but please realize that they will be offered by physical credit card transactions as well, once these credit cards contain an EMV chip (by this time next year).
- I say potentially, because a lot of the NFC terminals out there at the moment use secure EMV protocols to talk to your iPhone, but they are not all necessarily using EMV standards to talk to the bank. The "last mile" still needs some work.
- The new EMV-compliant terminals that will be ubiquitous by next October will not necessarily support Apple Pay. EMV allows both contactless (NFC) and contact transactions, so Walmart and friends can just leave the NFC part turned off at their terminals and still be compliant.
- While the EMV standard has been implemented largely as a "chip-and-PIN" system in Europe and elsewhere, it looks like most US banks are going to implement it as "chip-and-signature" instead. Both implementations are allowed, as is a simple transaction with no verification at all. The banks and the merchants decide the transaction-amount threshold beyind which verification is required, and which type of verification is involved. This appears to be unaffected by your use of an iPhone with its fingerprint sensor.
The bottom line: this is a rapidly changing situation in which Apple is just one player, so it will probably never be as simple, as uniform, nor as unique as Apple has portrayed it.
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Dec 3, 2014 1:18 PM in response to Bill999by anypats,I love using Apple Pay but hope that for stores not supporting NFC payments that I will be able to use an EMV card very soon. I noticed that a couple of the local Walmarts near me have EMV readers. However, it looks like it's still going to take some time for EMV becoming a standard for a couple of reasons. First, it will take some time for people to become accustomed to placing their card in the reader rather than swiping. Second, the average cost of an EMV reader is $500 and the cost to replace each card with an EMV chip will be $3.50. Smaller businesses may not be able to upgrade as quickly. Third, despite the October 2015 deadline, only 86% of businesses say they will plan to support it within the next two years. So it seems that some businesses are willing to take upon that liability as they wait for whatever reason. Fourth, the current estimate is only 40% of debit cards will be compatible by October 2015 and 70% of credit cards. It is going to take some time for the transition to EMV chip payments in the US. Oh, and one other thing - gas stations will have until 2017 to convert and the current liability rules will apply for them until 2017.
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/emv-faq-chip-cards-answers-1264.php