I am being asked to upgrade to iCloud Drive but indications are that I will not be able to access up to date details on any of my documents on my Mac without going into iCloud first. Have I got this interpretation right or can I save changes to acce

That is Apple's statement:

Using iWork with iCloud Drive - Apple Support

Options for iWork customers

You can upgrade to iCloud Drive today if you want to keep your documents up to date in iOS 8 and OS X Yosemite, and you want to use the iWork web apps on iCloud.com and the Share via iCloud feature.

You can upgrade to iCloud Drive later if you want to keep your documents up to date with your apps on iOS 7 or earlier and OS X Mavericks or earlier.

Upgrade to iCloud Drive today

To access the most recent versions of your documents from a Mac with OS X Mavericks or earlier, you’ll need to go to iCloud.com and access Pages, Numbers, and Keynote from there. On a PC, you can install iCloud for Windows and set up iCloud Drive.

If you upgrade to iCloud Drive now:

• Your documents will keep up to date across devices with iOS 8, Macs with OS X Yosemite, PCs with iCloud for Windows, and iCloud.com.
• Your documents will no longer keep up to date on devices with iOS 7 and Macs with OS X Mavericks or earlier.
• You’ll be able to use the iWork web apps on iCloud.com.
• You’ll be able to use the Share via iCloud feature with iOS 8, OS X Yosemite, and iCloud.com.
• Documents you previously shared via iCloud will be accessible to collaborators.

Upgrade to iCloud Drive later

Note that until you upgrade your iCloud account to iCloud Drive, you won’t be able to use the iWork web apps on iCloud.com or the Share via iCloud feature. If you don’t upgrade to iCloud Drive at this time:

• Your documents will keep up to date across devices with iOS 8 and across devices with iOS 7 and Macs with OS X Mavericks or earlier.
• You won’t be able to use the iWork web apps on iCloud.com.
• You won’t be able to use the Share via iCloud feature.
• Documents you previously shared via iCloud won’t be accessible to collaborators until you upgrade to iCloud Drive.

I'm upgrading to Yosemite and was under the impression that I could keep using the old iCloud normally, but the wording on the upgrade dialog is making me doubt that. It says, "If you need to continue using older versions of OSX or IOS to access your documents and data, you can upgrade to iCloud drive later, but changes you make from older versions will not be available on this Mac."

IMO that last bit can be interpreted to mean that even when upgrading later, the changes won't be available on this Mac. I have installed Yosemite on my dad's Mac without iCloud Drive and it seemed to be working but I can't say I really tested it. I don't have regular access to that Mac.

So, will my Contacts/Notes/Reminders and so forth (including Numbers spreadsheets) still sync both ways with Yosemite if I do not upgrade to iCloud drive? We still have a phone running IOS 6. The other two devices are on IOS8.

To clarify a bit: I know that upgrading to iCloud Drive will break my syncing. I want to know if merely upgrading to Yosemite will break my syncing.

Once the last phone is on IOS8 it won't be an issue... but it's a hard sell.

Yes it does.

Your syncing will break if you turn iCloud drive on (for any device that is not compatible with it)

If you have a phone that is on IOS7 it won't sync data and documents anymore. If you have already turned it on that is the current situation.

I want to know if merely upgrading to Yosemite will break my syncing.

Once the last phone is on IOS8 it won't be an issue... but it's a hard sell.

I have been syncing iOS 7 devices with a Yosemite mac without problems, (iCloud Drive never enabled). So the Yosemite upgrade alone did not break the syncing. If iCloud Drive has been enabled, however, there is no way back. You cannot revert the upgrade, only stop using iCloud Drive.

I never tested this setup however with one of the iOS devices upgraded to iOS 8 and the others not. I upgraded all at the same time to iOS 8.

Thank you! I've read a lot of threads and never found anyone who could just say, "This will still work."

Csound1: I wasn't asking about using iCloud Drive. I already knew that would break things. I was asking about using Yosemite without iCloud drive. But I was not the OP; you did address his question.

OK, I'm back with some details. I upgraded to Yosemite and while some of the stuff did sync, the sync was definitely broken with Numbers.

Apple keeps saying "Documents" in its help pages but doesn't say what counts as a document and what doesn't. Contacts/Calendar/Notes and those old built-in Apps work. Don't know about Preview; if those files are considered documents or not.

The lack of clarity for me was that iCloud Drive is supposed to let you sync all of these new document types, so maybe that was what Apple was referring to. But no, they meant certain old ones also. Fact: Yosemite will not sync Numbers to the old iCloud.

So I went back to Mavericks. . I will eventually have to go to Yosemite to take advantage of the new features, but I was happy to get my old, more legible interface back. When I do upgrade, I'm going to have to replace Mail and Safari. Wow are they bad. Wish I could get the new functionality without having to tolerate the new UI.

I think your experience with numbers may be misleading you. Numbers documents behave the same way as Pages documents and text edit documents for example, I have no idea why they didn't in your case,

Simply updating to Yosemite will not cause you a problem, but upgrading from iCloud to iCloud Drive will. Once you do this only Yosemite and iOS8 devices will sync documents, other devices will let you edit documents but they will no longer sync with any other device. And what's more, this change is irreversible, hence the simple one line advice, that unless everything is running Yosemite or iOS8, don't upgrade to iCloud Drive.

Documents are files you can place in iCloud and generally move around, duplicate, delete etc etc in the Finder, data that's contained within an application itself such as calendars, notes, contacts etc aren't documents.

"Simply updating to Yosemite will not cause you a problem"

What's the source of your opinion here? Do you have personal experience with documents such as Numbers continuing to sync with the old iCloud under Yosemite, or can you cite something from Apple that indicates this?

When upgrading to Yosemite the warnings were very clear: Yosemite relies on iCloud Drive to sync documents. That is pretty much verbatim. My confusion was only about what constituted a document. You and I agree that Numbers files are documents.

There is a lot of confusion about this. That's why I ended up having to try it.

... If you don’t upgrade to iCloud Drive at this time:

Your documents will keep up to date across devices with iOS 8 and across devices with iOS 7 and Macs with OS X Mavericks or earlier.

Thanks; that is the important point. The plain English version of that is, "Upgrading to Yosemite without using iCloud Drive will break iCloud for your existing iWorks apps."

AntonLargiader wrote:

... If you don’t upgrade to iCloud Drive at this time:

Your documents will keep up to date across devices with iOS 8 and across devices with iOS 7 and Macs with OS X Mavericks or earlier.

Thanks; that is the important point. The plain English version of that is, "Upgrading to Yosemite without using iCloud Drive will break iCloud for your existing iWorks apps."

Are you reading the same paragraph as I am.....

... If you don’t upgrade to iCloud Drive at this time:

Your documents will keep up to date

And yes I have used Yosemite without converting to iCloud Drive.

"Your documents will keep up to date across..." a list of operating systems that doesn't include Yosemite. It's right there. The list excludes Yosemite. I do think we are reading the same paragraph, right?

Please read it again.

... If you don’t upgrade to iCloud Drive at this time:

Your documents will keep up to date across devices with iOS 8 and across devices with iOS 7 and Macs with OS X Mavericks or earlier.

"If you don't upgrade to iCloud drive at this time", means that you have an option to upgrade, you only get this option in Yosemite, so you are already using Yosemite and there is no need to include it in the list of operating systems that WILL work with it, it would be a ludicrous situation of you couldn't use Yosemite to share documents with Yosemite.

To me, it says that if I don't upgrade to iCD my docs will continue to sync across all of my other non-Yosemite devices (but only those devices). And that is exactly my experience, and it is borne out by Apple's warning that Yosemite relies on iCD for syncing documents.

They're talking about other Macs anyway, so there's no reason to omit Yosemite Macs because something is over-obvious. They omit Yosemite Macs because they don't belong on that list because they won't sync documents. The statement really means exactly what it says.

If you are syncing iWorks documents from Yosemite to devices on that list via the old iCloud, please let us know the OS and App version numbers. And if you aren't, well, it just might be that you aren't right about this.

" it would be a ludicrous situation of you couldn't use Yosemite to share documents with Yosemite."

..over old iCloud, you mean. Not ludicrous at all. Yosemite has moved on to newer technology.

Do you know for a fact that you can share documents between Yosemite Macs over the old iCloud?