Barry Rickert1
Level 1 (5 points)

Q: It is not possible to backup your Pages, Numbers or Keynotes stored on iCloud!

iCloud for Pages, Keynote and Numbers does not work like iPhoto.

 

iPhoto receives a copy from iCloud and stores an orginial file on your local drive. Not so for the other apps.

 

If you create a document, save it to iCloud and then delete it, I is gone.

 

If you delete a photo that has been saved to iCloud, a copy is stored on your local drive and your local backup should have older copies of that photo.

 

My Carbon Copy Backup keeps as many iterations of files as my drive can hold. I never have to worry about accidental deletion.

 

I believe that Apple has missed the boat big time. The cloud syc was great for music and photos as both kept original files on your local Mac.

 

Why they changed this for these new apps is beyond common sense. Who would buy a drive that you cannot back up?

 

Online, remote storage has been used as a safe backup system forever. iCloud is not safe.

 

Fix: Open your iCloud Drive folder and then open Pages. Select All and copy them to your hard drive. Then backup your hard drive. After verified, delete all files on iCloud Drive as you will never know if they are the most current.

 

The only time I might use iCloud Drive for these files is when I wish to share on a very temporary basis.

 

I am surprised that DropBox and Box and others are not all over this flaw.

Mac mini, OS X Yosemite (10.10.1)

Posted on Dec 21, 2014 5:32 PM

by léonie,Solvedanswer
léonie léonie
Level 10 (108,930 points)
iCloud
A:

Barry,

have you read, what iCloud Drive is meant to be?  I think, you want it to be something different. See this link:  iCloud Drive FAQ

 

Here's what you can do with iCloud Drive:

  • Store and access all of your documents in one place from any of your devices
  • Keep files and folders up to date across all your devices
  • Create new files and folders from iCloud-enabled apps
  • Work on the same file across multiple apps

You use iCloud Drive like any external drive.  And the advantage is, y'all your devices can access this drive.

 

Why they changed this for these new apps is beyond common sense. Who would buy a drive that you cannot back up?

If you are using Time Machine with your Mac, your Cloud documents are included,  since all iCloud Drive documents have local shadow copies in your user library.  You'll find your Pages documents for example in ~/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~Pages/Documents

and your own custom folders on iCloud Drive in ~/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs

 

Online, remote storage has been used as a safe backup system forever. iCloud is not safe.

iCloud Drive is not meant as an online backup storage. It is an online drive for your working set of your most important documents, that you need to access everywhere and anytime.  And you back it up the same way as all your other documents, by backing up your Mac.

 

-- Léonie

Posted on Dec 22, 2014 10:32 AM

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Barry Rickert1

Q: It is not possible to backup your Pages, Numbers or Keynotes stored on iCloud!

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  • by Winston Churchill,

    Winston Churchill Winston Churchill Dec 22, 2014 4:09 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 10 (104,521 points)
    Apple TV
    Dec 22, 2014 4:09 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    Barry Rickert1 wrote:

     

    You are wrong. Once you delete the files on the cloud, they are automatically removed from this folder as well. This folder is a reflection of what is on the cloud.

     

    Only the hidden folder does not get deleted.

    That's not correct.

     

    If you delete the files in the cloud they are automatically removed from the Finder (by way of a sync) they are therefore also removed from the Library (which is hidden) because they are in fact the same files. The point that Csound1 is making is that because documents are always written to your Mac, if you delete them by accident (regardless of where you do this from), your back up will have made a copy of those documents for you to restore.

  • by léonie,

    léonie léonie Dec 22, 2014 4:10 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 10 (108,930 points)
    iCloud
    Dec 22, 2014 4:10 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    Once you delete the files on the cloud, they are automatically removed from this folder as well. This folder is a reflection of what is on the cloud.

     

    Only the hidden folder does not get deleted.

    The hidden shadow copies are exactly the same files and folders you are seeing in iCloud Drive. That is where it is stored on your Mac and updated, when the files change in iCloud.  Usually you will access the files using the visible iCloud Drive icon in the Finder sidebar. You need only to know the actual place in the user library, when you need to restore the files from a Time Machine backup.

  • by Barry Rickert1,

    Barry Rickert1 Barry Rickert1 Dec 22, 2014 4:10 PM in response to Winston Churchill
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 22, 2014 4:10 PM in response to Winston Churchill

    Winston: You are wrong...

    Let me tell you why.

     

    The iCloud Drive folder is not backed up by Time Machine or Carbon Copy. Those are Alias only. That folder only appears when you are connected to the internet.

     

    Only documents that you save to any other location other than iCloud are actually saved to your Mac.

     

    If you don't believe me, use your iPhone, delete all Pages on iCloud, Then look at your Mac iCloud Drive folder. They be Gone!

  • by Winston Churchill,Helpful

    Winston Churchill Winston Churchill Dec 22, 2014 4:15 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 10 (104,521 points)
    Apple TV
    Dec 22, 2014 4:15 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    Barry Rickert1 wrote:

     

    Winston:

    I do not see any previous reply from you anywhere.....

    Barry, I was replying to dkb 46 who posted more or less what they posted in this thread in another one a few days ago. I took the time then to explain everything to them and they seemed to understand this even if it didn't fit in with the way they wanted to do their computing. They are posting again and ignoring everything they have been told for effect, which is far from reasonable in someone else's thread.

  • by Barry Rickert1,

    Barry Rickert1 Barry Rickert1 Dec 22, 2014 4:24 PM in response to Winston Churchill
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 22, 2014 4:24 PM in response to Winston Churchill

    I was confused Sorry.

     

    This is obviously a topic that Apple needs to address.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Dec 22, 2014 4:36 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 9 (51,427 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 22, 2014 4:36 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    Barry Rickert1 wrote:

     

    You are wrong. Once you delete the files on the cloud, they are automatically removed from this folder as well. This folder is a reflection of what is on the cloud.

     

    Only the hidden folder does not get deleted.

    Barry, clearly you are only dimly informed on this subject.

     

    The hidden folder and the visible (iCloud) folder in Finder are the same folder, one can not be different from the other.

     

    Your lack of knowledge on the subject is extreme, and your conclusions are nonsense.

  • by Barry Rickert1,

    Barry Rickert1 Barry Rickert1 Dec 22, 2014 4:50 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 22, 2014 4:50 PM in response to Csound1

    Not true, you are not testing this. I know, I just went through this. The only backup was in the hidden folder. Check it out. You will see.

    Please try it. Delete all your pages using your phone. If you are write, they will be gone in both the iCloud Drive and the Hidden folder.

     

    If you have not done this then you do not know for sure that you are right. I have done this so I am speaking with experience.

    Until you do this test, please don't tell me I am wrong about this.

  • by Winston Churchill,

    Winston Churchill Winston Churchill Dec 22, 2014 4:49 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 10 (104,521 points)
    Apple TV
    Dec 22, 2014 4:49 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    Barry Rickert1 wrote:

     

    Winston: You are wrong...

    Let me tell you why.

    Allow me to tell you why you are wrong, but I really shouldn't have to go to these levels to prove something to someone I'm trying to help.

    The iCloud Drive folder is not backed up by Time Machine or Carbon Copy. Those are Alias only. That folder only appears when you are connected to the internet.

    Please perform the following steps.

    1. Open any folder in your iCloud Drive.

    Various_and_iPhoto.png

    2. Select a file and drag it to your desktop (you'll be asked if you wish to delete it from iCloud, choose delete)

    Various.png

    3. Launch Time Machine and if not already there go to now and confirm the file you deleted is no longer there.

    iPhoto 2.png

    4. Step back in time to a point before you deleted the file and voila there it is all nicely backed up.

    Only documents that you save to any other location other than iCloud are actually saved to your Mac.

    If that's the case where do you think time machine copies this file from, my Time machine only copies from my Main HD because as you can see I have a few and they all won't back up to one drive. You can also go to the library and see the size of the mobile documents folder, in mine there's almost 4 GB, that's an awful lot of alises.

    Library.png

    If you don't believe me, use your iPhone, delete all Pages on iCloud, Then look at your Mac iCloud Drive folder. They be Gone!

    Yes of course they are, that's because they keep in sync and if you care to read carefully it's exactly what I said would happen. They may well be gone but they are recoverable because they are backed up.

  • by Winston Churchill,

    Winston Churchill Winston Churchill Dec 22, 2014 4:53 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 10 (104,521 points)
    Apple TV
    Dec 22, 2014 4:53 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    Barry Rickert1 wrote:

     

    ..... If you are write, they will be gone in both the iCloud Drive and the Hidden folder.....

    Then he's right is he not because they are gone in both locations although without a bit of messing about you'll need to rely on the size of the folder to confirm a file has been removed from the hidden folder.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Dec 22, 2014 4:55 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 9 (51,427 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 22, 2014 4:55 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    When you first posted here you weren't even aware that there were copies stored on the Mac, now you think you're an expert

     

    Believe whatever you choose, the truth doesn't change.

  • by Barry Rickert1,

    Barry Rickert1 Barry Rickert1 Dec 22, 2014 5:07 PM in response to Winston Churchill
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 22, 2014 5:07 PM in response to Winston Churchill

    Thanks for your post. I appears that Time Machine does see these these files. I was told differently by Apple.

     

    Thanks

  • by Winston Churchill,

    Winston Churchill Winston Churchill Dec 22, 2014 5:12 PM in response to Barry Rickert1
    Level 10 (104,521 points)
    Apple TV
    Dec 22, 2014 5:12 PM in response to Barry Rickert1

    And everything else is also as we have told you. This thread has made things seem far more complicated than it needs to be. Just use the files from the finder > iCloud drive as you would any other file, it will be backed up on your mac (provided you keep a back up) and will also be synced to every other device you have. If you pick up one of these other devices any changes you make there will go to your mac and ultimately be backed up too. It's dead easy really.

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