MIDI keyboard by M-Audio not working on Yosemite

I solved the problem in macOS Sierra by using a USB 2.0 hub, in the chain, rather than plugging straight into the USB 3.0 port. I didn't need to power the USB hub either. I have an M-Audio Keystation Mini 32 and Logic would just not see it even though the USB device was recognised as connected. It's likely a USB 3.0 power rating issue. It might work for Yosemite too...good luck.

I'm not sure if it will be much help but have you tried using the Audio MIDI Setup app in the Utilities folder? It may be worth playing around with to see if you can get anything happening.

If not, in my experience the less current Avid/M-Audio products are not entirely compatible/reliable with yosemite but as a simple MIDI controller it should not really make a difference.

Also in terms of a new MIDI controller generally the more you spend the better the velocity response and all that kind of thing is. If you are looking for something to tide you over immediately and have a smartphone or iPad there are apps that will work as a MIDI keyboard but you may have slight latency issues (which is not really a problem for scoring, more if you are trying to record etc. but can still be adjusted on your mac with some tuning)

Quick Answer: Its the USB3 port on your new computer, that provides less power.... than your USB2 device needs.

Detailed Answer: Actually, it's really not that simple and its not really the fault of the makers of these computers (because its not just Macs but certain PCs too) that demonstrate this well documented issue.

It's the fact that Designers of some USB2 devices, designed their gear (or used off the shelf chipsets inside these devices that were designed...) to take advantage of some extra power available via a USB2 port that was above the stated/recommended levels detailed in the formal USB2 specs...

USB3 ports don't have the 'extra' power available as the formal specs for USB3 were "tightened up" mainly so USB3 ports didn't place a larger than needed drain on battery powered computers... This is why some USB2 devices, when plugged into USB3 ports, especially on Laptops... don't function correctly... because there isn't that extra power to draw upon... that they took advantage of when plugged into the older USB2 ports.

There may have also been changes in the drivers and firmware for OS X, Win 8.x and their respective hardware to restrict the power provided by USB3 ports... in order to remain within the formal USB3 specs... but this is something of a grey area... and there may be other reasons related to these changes that are not as clear cut and may not just be related to restricting power outputs/usage.

The solution , as you have discovered, is usually to connect the USB2 device to a powered USB2 hub and then connect the hub to the USB3 port..... so the powered hub provides that extra power these devices need... that they can no longer draw from the USB3 port.

or... buy gear that was correctly designed in the first place.. or that contains firmware that can be updated to modify the amount of power needed from the port 🙂

Cheaper USB2 devices typically don't allow for firmware/driver changes..... which is why these cheaper devices are usually more affected by this issue than the more expensive/well designed devices that can be updated.. .. with some cheap USB2 devices demonstrating all kinds of weird issues or not functioning at all in severe cases..

The real cheap USB2 to Midi cord/cable type interfaces being a good example of a USB2 device that can act very erratically at times causing midi errors, missed or doubled midi data and other forms of instability.

What's odd is the USB 3.0 specs list 900mA power supply enough to power almost all external devices.

USB 2.0 has an upper limit of 500mA power supply.

"Finally the last main difference is the available power and power management of the 3.0 products. USB 2.0 provided up to 500 mA whereas USB 3.0 provides up to 900 mA, allowing power hungry devices to now be bus powered. In addition the 3.0 technology allows better power efficiency with less power for idle states or to remove power completely when not in use."

This is very true..

However, this is what was explained to me.... as to what's going on by one of the Motu techs...

What some devices do/did is take advantage of the fact that the 5 'loads' of 100 mA per load / total of 500mA was only a recommendation initially in USB 1.1 and the prelim 2.0 specs.. and most 2.0 chipsets provided for 1A divided up into 10 'loads'. USB HID devices can only use 1 'load' but 'High Power' devices can upon request, take as many 'loads' added together as they wish so long as the chipset allows and provides for it... As per the description of USB2.0 "Every device functions initially as low-power (including high-power functions during their low-power enumeration phases), but may request high-power, and get it if available on the providing bus."

The original specs only allowed for a max of 5 'loads' of 100mA = 500mA in total but with these 'dual load' chipsets that then became 10 'loads' of 100mA = 1A

I understand the point of 'dual load' chipsets was to provide more USB2 ports on any given device without needing separate chip sets for them all... and to provide better performance when they were ganged up on buses...

Only the newer USB3-A can match this.. the original and most often used USB3 port cannot.... and even then that extra load is only available when used as a charging port... The USB3 specs were tightened up to only allow for a maximum of 9 'loads' of 100mA so there is then a shortfall of 100mA which causes devices that utilized the full 10 'loads' to trip up and become unstable... because they are 1 'load' or 100mA short on their power requirements..

He also said that another 'catch' was that some devices cannot handle the "power off' systems that were introduced in USB3.0 so if the device is not used for a short while it gets powered down and cannot turn itself back on again so the IUSB3 chipset/ computer thinks its been unplugged... Keeping the USB device plugged into a powered 2.0 hub provides for continuous power to the device so when USB3 shuts off power when it doesnt receive any data for a short while.. the device remains powered on and so can continue to work with the USB3 port 'waking up' upon reception of fresh data.... (or something like that!)

So.. this is how I understand it to be... There may be some things I lost or misunderstood 'in translation' as what the tech was talking about, for the most part... was way, way above my pay grade but I believe that to be the essence of what he was talking about...

Oh.. I forgot to say.. and again if I fully understand what the tech was saying..

It was the 'power off' issue that tripped up one of Motu's USB2 Midi interfaces... when used with a USB3.0 port. They had to use a firmware update to get their device to send some sort of "keep alive' msg to the USB3 chipset so it didn't power off.

Excellent description, thanks a bunch!

Yeah, the power off issue is causing problems, the fact that polling is required is yet another background on/off process that can cause performance degradation.

I was thinking of adding a pci-e USB 3.0 card... I see a lot of them have extra internal connectors for added power. I need to find one compatible with both the Mac Pro and the PC.

Here's what my USB 2.0 PC shows available. I don't know why it's calling the USB port a Hub, it's a motherboard USB slot.

I don't know why it's calling the USB port a Hub, it's a motherboard USB slot

Weird.. I didn't get an email letting me know you are responded.....

Anyhow... Yes,.. My 2011 Mac Mini Server describes itself as having a built in hub..... along with an external Elgato TBolt 2 / USB3 Hub.. and an external USB2 powered hub...

Btw.. the Elgato has 3 x 3.0 USB ports... but in order to enable high power USB support from these ports you have to install a driver on your Mac.....

Unlike traditional USB hubs, the built-in USB ports will even provide enough power to charge your iPad, boost your iPhone charge, enable you to use your Apple SuperDrive, or connect additional bus-powered devices to your Apple Keyboard. Elgato Thunderbolt 2 Dock charges your devices even if your computer is turned off or not connected at all.

To enable high-power USB support on your Mac, simply download and install the free Elgato Thunderbolt Dock Utility.

I was thinking of adding a pci-e USB 3.0 card... I see a lot of them have extra internal connectors for added power. I need to find one compatible with both the Mac Pro and the PC.

Yes.. that sounds like a good idea!

As an aside...

Given I have a TBolt port on my main Mac Mini Server that wasn't being used except for one WD TBolt Velociraptor Duo I picked up the Elgato TBolt 2 Dock for $200 on Amazon... as that then gives me 3 x USB3 ports (The MMS has none), a pass thru TBolt 2 port... and an amped headphone port as well as an extra Gigabit Ethernet port and a HDMI... Works so well Im thinking about getting another for my main iMac so i can hook up some fast USB3 HDs for backups and extra storage... directly to the iMac which again is the 2011 model so it only has USB2 ports... and a HDMI second monitor... and the gigabit ethernet to use with VEP routing directly to the MMS/TBolt2 dock's ethernet port...... avoiding my main network altogether...

"Boys and their toys' as a close friend of mine keeps reminding me....

🙂

Is there anyone, who connected m-audio midi keyboard to Yosemite?!

Thank you so much ! I have just taken my keystation mini off ebay !

This has been driving me mad ! I used a 10m usb lead (powered) and it works perfectly

Cheers Pal

Yes it works on Yos logic x and garageband , The art of sound got it right its the USB3 issue

This is an interesting thread.

I also have a Midiman Keystation 61 that has stopped working since upgrading to Yosemite. Although, to be clear, I also upgraded my Mac mini from a 2006 model to this years model, meaning I have gone from using USB2.0 to USB3.0 bus also.

Before I go out and buy an external USB hub to see if that fixes my issue - I just want to confirm a couple of details:

- I have the Keystation plugged into an external 9v power source, not using USB power

- I have a standard USB cable plugged directly into my Mac mini USB port

- System report is displaying the device as being found:

But alas "Audio Midi Setup" doesn't see the device at all, no matter how many times I scan for devices or recreate the configuration.

So, based on the information above, is it possible the issue might still be USB power?

Thanks for any further thoughts on this. It's baffling the **** out of me.

I bought a new MBP Retina, connected my Avid M-Audio Keystation Mini 32 and I could not receive the midi signal. I tried both USB ports (left and right) and the Audio Midi Setup over and over, no luck. Then I plugged it in to a powered USB hub and boom midi signal. However, that was only a partial solution, because I want to use it on the go without a powered hub. Then, I tried a newer microUSB cable and success! Direct connection to either USB port (left or right) and the midi signal works perfectly. 🙂

TLDR; get a new micro USB 3.0. cable.

System;

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)

2.8 GHz i7 - 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3

OSX El Capitan (10.11.3)