Mixing 23.98 and 29.97 footage

Hi,

I'm hoping to start a new project off on the right foot - here's what happened last time:


I just finished a documentary shot at 23.98, sequence preset of HDV 720p24 (in FCP 6).

After mastering I was told that not only is HDV out-of-date, but that all of our future broadcast docs will have to be converted to 29.97 anyway - so it's best just to shoot and edit them as such, in a more common format (ex. DVCPRO HD).


I want to make the next project easier and follow this advice, but am already finding myself confused.


The next project has been through many rounds of filming already.

The older footage is all HDV 720p24 (1280x720)

Other, more recent, footage includes:

XDCAM EX 1080p24 (1920x1080)

H.264 (23.98) (1920x1080)

H.264 (29.97) (1920x1080)

Moving forward, we want to shoot all Doc related footage in 29.97 - but until then, how do I proceed with what I have?

I can't seem to get the right sequence settings for my 29.97 footage without having problems.

And I know that it will be best to convert my 24 footage to match my 30 footage in compressor, but am unclear which settings to use there as well.


Please let me know if I can offer any more explanation.

Thanks in advance,

w8dward

Final Cut Pro 6, Mac OS X (10.6.8)

Posted on Jan 26, 2015 11:26 AM

Reply
11 replies

Jan 26, 2015 3:00 PM in response to w8dward

OK, first off, convert all your H.264 footage to ProRes 422. FCP and H.264 don't mix.


Second...since most of your footage is 23.98, I suggest cutting at 23.98, and converting your final at the end. I do this all the time. Many many projects are shot and edited at 23.98 and then converted to interlaced 29.97 when they deliver...very common practice. Your only sticking point will be the already shot 29.97fps footage. You'll need to convert that to 23.98, but then it might look odd when you go back to 29.97. Do some tests to make sure.


So...edit ProRes 422 at 23.98, output a 23.98 ProRes 422 master...FILE>EXPORT>QT...self contained. And then take that into Compressor and convert to 29.97 this way:


1. Drop clips you want to convert into Compressor


2. In Compressor, select your video then right click and choose NEW TARGET WITH SETTING > APPLE > FORMATS > QUICKTIME > APPLE PRORES 422 (HQ). Or pick whatever codec you like to work with.


3. Click on that newly created compression setting to open it in the Inspector window. Click the Encoder tab. Click the Video: (Settings…) button. Make the frame rate 29.97. Check the interlaced box. Set it's drop down menu to Bottom field first. Click OK.


4. Click the Frame Controls tab. Set Frame Controls to On. Set Output Fields to Bottom first. Leave Deinterlace on Fast. Leave Adaptive Details checked. Leave Rate Conversion set to Fast. Leave the Set Duration to: on 100% and make sure it's radio button is selected and NOT the "so source frames play at 29.97 fps" button.


5. Make changes to the Filters or Geometry sections as needed. Those settings listed above are the ones critical to getting the proper 3:2 pulldown added.


6. Submit the compression, then bring the resulting video back into Final Cut Pro. Place it in a 29.97 timeline and make sure you watch it on an NTSC monitor to verify that it looks good. If you step through it frame-by-frame you should see the familiar pattern of 2 split/interlaced frames followed by 3 whole frames. This is a very important step. I tried many solutions that looked OK playing back on the computer monitor, but looked terrible on the NTSC monitor.

Jan 27, 2015 10:22 AM in response to Shane Ross

My first follow-up...

I created an Apple ProRes 422 timeline at 23.98 - and the only thing that displays correctly is my 29.97 footage (I haven't converted anything yet), though it does need to be rendered.

Are there any more specifics that you can give me?

Also, what are the particular settings that should be on my 29.97 footage to convert to 23.98? I'm running some tests now, but haven't put anything back into FCP yet.


The image shows an example of each of the video files I have been given. It also shows some of the sequences I have. Seq. 7 & 10 I have been testing - all the others have work on them.


User uploaded file

Jan 27, 2015 10:45 AM in response to w8dward

It looks like you not only have differing frame rates but also differing frame sizes.


Sequence 10 is set up for DVCProHD (perhaps from a Panasonic P2 camera?)


Sequence 7 is set up for h.264 at 1920x1080


In what format is your main (most important) material?


If you are keeping the DVCProHD frame rate, convert it to 1280x720 square pixel as ProRes. LT is ok for this source material.


Then, convert the h.264 to the same format, image size and frame rate.


In compressor, turn on frame controls to Better (size and retiming). The conversion may take a while.


x

Jan 27, 2015 10:47 AM in response to w8dward

Update:

Also, what are the particular settings that should be on my 29.97 footage to convert to 23.98? I'm running some tests now, but haven't put anything back into FCP yet.


I put a test into a few different sequences, and it looks alright (though, still hoping for an answer on particular settings so I can compare and test).

The native audio is, of course, out of sync.

Sync audio was recorded, and that's what I'm using - but not sure what I need to do to the audio files, in terms of converting them, to get them to play at the same rate as my now 23.98 video clip.


Thank You!! Feeling a bit overwhelmed over here, never encountered these issues in my editing before.

Jan 27, 2015 12:51 PM in response to w8dward

Sorry, but every single sequence you show is wrong for this. You should NEVER have an H.264 sequence setting...ever. And when you mix formats...you should never use an HDV nor XDCAM setting. Actually, when you are editing anything BUT native HDV or XDCAM you shouldn't have those settings.


Your sequence setting must be 1920x1080 23.98. Odd thing is that FCP doesn't offer that unless you have a hardware IO card like AJA or Blackmagic design. Not unless you first convert your footage to that. So the first thing you need to do is convert the H.264 to 1920x1080 ProRes 422. Then, take one of those clips, drop it into a new sequence, and click YES when FCP asks if you want to make the sequence match the clip. Then you can drop in the HDV and XDCAM just fine...they'll scale and work fine. You'll get a green render bar, but that's fine. Render later.


Never edit with H.264 footage...never ever. Convert first. Don't edit mixed footage in an H.264, HDV or XDCAM timeline. Never ever.

Jan 27, 2015 12:51 PM in response to Studio X

Thanks for the response!

My challenge is - all of this is pretty important footage. All of the clips in the picture are one example from each of the different cameramen that shot. So all of the footage (interviews and broll (though mostly interviews so far) are in one of these four formats))


Sequence 10 is Apple ProRes 422, as Shane Ross suggested I edit in - though I think some setting is still wrong and need clarification.


Sequence 7 - I pulled my new 29.97 footage onto the timeline and was prompted to change my sequence settings to match the clip settings. I did this because I need to get this particular footage out and did not want to spend the time rendering and haven't been able to convert anything yet. (Though, when I put timecode on it, it needs rendering and I get the dreaded "General Error". So much for that.)


So, I was told that using DVCProHD is a great alternative to the old fashioned "HDV" that we last used. But, I am having trouble setting up a new timeline and having the footage look right.


If you are keeping the DVCProHD frame rate...

Are you referencing a specific clip? I'm not clear on this.

I think once I understand that (above) I will better understand the rest (below)

convert it to 1280x720 square pixel as ProRes. LT is ok for this source material.

Then, convert the h.264 to the same format, image size and frame rate.

In compressor, turn on frame controls to Better (size and retiming). The conversion may take a while.

Jan 27, 2015 1:44 PM in response to Shane Ross

Thanks for the response, Shane...


Any chance you have a screen shot or something I can use as a reference for the settings I should be using in compressor?

I put one of my H.264 29.97 clips into compressor, added an Apple ProRes 422 setting, put it back into FCP and allowed it to change the sequence to match... Still doing something wrong. Tried changing 29.97 to 23.98 in compressor and that didn't take apparently.


Thought?

Thanks!

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Mixing 23.98 and 29.97 footage

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