CONSTANT problems with Airport Express in two rooms, dropped connection with gateway, no AirPlay

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Level 1

6 points

CONSTANT problems with Airport Express in two rooms, dropped connection with gateway, no AirPlay

I have 3 Airport Express in my apartment, one is connected (named Living Room) to my ISP provided gateway (router) and acts as the main wireless hub, the other two (named Kitchen and Bedroom) and are set up to provide AirPlay audio only.

The ones set up for AirPlay have had constant issues since we moved to our new place 4 months ago, this is very strange because we were with the same ISP in the old place and used the same gateway (router) without any problems which leads me to think that there is something in the walls in the new place which is blocking an effective signal.

Even as I type this, I have Airport Utility open on my Mac and a message just popped up from AU saying that 'Living Room is unavailable'.

Attached is a screenshot which shows the current status of the Airport network. Basically it is a mess, and I have tried everything, from resetting the ISP router and all the AXPs, to changing the Network Modes to experimenting with repositioning the units to points in rooms where the reception might be better.

NOTHING has made any difference.

iMac, OS X Yosemite (10.10)

Posted on Feb 16, 2015 11:01 PM

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Answer 1

Best reply

Bob Timmons

Community+ 2024

Level 10

159,332 points

Feb 17, 2015 6:17 AM in response to The Obviator

If you have a Mac laptop and don't mind investing five dollars for a good utility like WiFi Explorer, you can test out the possibility that the walls might be blocking a good deal of the wireless signal in your new apartment.

Mac App Store - WiFi Explorer - Apple

This is becoming more and more common, as newer products often use materials with metal foil backing on both sides of the insulation, which effectively blocks most wireless signals from passing through.

Post back if you want to take a look at this possibility, as well as other things.....like interference being created by too many wireless networks in close proximity to each other.

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Answer 2

The Obviator Author

Level 1

6 points

Feb 17, 2015 6:36 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Thanks for your reply Bob, as you suggest, it seems very likely that the culprit is interference, or objects blocking wireless signals. Although our building is not very old (built in the mid 1950s) it is unlikely that it contains the type of materials that you refer to.

I noticed early on that there is something very strange about our new place, when I have gone to Google Maps or Apple Maps using our home Wi-Fi, the geo-location of our apartment is off by at least 40 metres, putting our position closer to the next street along than where we actually are.

It seems that there is severe interference which is causing the disruption with the AXPs.

I will certainly try out the app that you have suggested and post here after.

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Answer 3

Feb 17, 2015 7:07 AM in response to The Obviator

Post back when you have the application installed, as there are some things that we need to go over with you, like SNR, and sequence of testing.

If the building was constructed in the 1950s, metal lathe and plaster (which can have a high metal content) were common wall materials at the time.

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Answer 4

The Obviator Author

Level 1

6 points

Feb 17, 2015 7:46 AM in response to Bob Timmons

I will do, thanks.

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Answer 5

The Obviator Author

Level 1

6 points

Feb 17, 2015 10:27 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Ok, the app is installed. What's next?

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Answer 6

Feb 17, 2015 11:51 AM in response to The Obviator

Go ahead and open up the application, and you should see a list of networks in your area. Approximately how many other networks do you see?

Next, power off both AirPort Express devices for now and move your laptop as close as possible to the location of one AirPort Express. Locate the name of your network and then look at the column headings to find a listing for Avg SNR and jot down that number.

If you do not see a column heading for Avg SNR, click WiFi Explorer in the upper left corner and then click Preferences. Enter a check mark in the box next to Avg SNR to add that to the display.

Then, use the chart below to evaluate the relative signal quality at that location.

40+ Superior

35 Excellent

30 Very Good

25 Good

20 Fair

15 Low

10 Very Low

5 Virtually no signal

Then, perform the same check at the other location of the AirPort Express.

Post back on your results. Power the Expresses back up now if you want.

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Answer 7

The Obviator Author

Level 1

6 points

Feb 18, 2015 10:52 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Well unfortunately I can't really give you much useful information as the AXP that was previously extending the wireless network in our kitchen, named 'Kitchen', dropped the connection completely, (blinking amber light) for about the hundredth time, so I reset it, moved it in to the living room where the main base station is, and set it up again.

It went through the process of extending the network without a hitch while it was in the living room, but then I unplugged it and moved it back in to the kitchen and without even showing a green light went straight to blinking amber.

The one in the bedroom earlier gave out an SNR of around 50dB, but then it dropped the connection and also went to blinking amber.

So anywhere outside of the living room the signal is never more than 25dB, and it doesn't make any difference whether another AXP is set up to extend the network because it only stays connected to the main base station for a matter of minutes.

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Answer 8

Feb 18, 2015 11:31 AM in response to The Obviator

Sorry, but this is very confusing.

If you will check my previous post, you will see that I asked you to check to see how many wireless networks that you could see (to get an idea of the competition from other networks).....and....to power off the Express devices temporarily and check to see what SNR reading you got at the location of each Express.

So, we don't know anything about the number of other networks there may be around you. If you do not want to provide this information, please let us know.

You did not mention whether you powered off the Express devices to test the SNR that was available at the location of each Express. Did you do this? If yes, can you provide the average SNR reading that you picked up at the location of each Express, when both Expresses were powered off.....as we asked?

So anywhere outside of the living room the signal is never more than 25dB

So, you picked up this 25dB reading when both AirPort Expresses were powered off, correct?

Finally, you mentioned in your first post that the other two (named Kitchen and Bedroom) and are set up to provide AirPlay audio only.....which would mean that they would not be extending the network. Yet, your information in the post just above indicates that you have set up the Expresses to extend the network. Can you clarify on that, please?

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Answer 9

The Obviator Author

Level 1

6 points

Feb 25, 2015 1:23 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Sorry, have been away for work so only just had a chance to look again at this:

I'lll try again: right now using WiFI Explorer I can see 9 other networks, 3 of those are using channel 11, the same as my Airport Express network. (Set to Automatic in Airport Utility)

What I tried to explain earlier was that the one in the kitchen will not stay connected long enough for me to get a reading on WiFi Explorer, but I can tell you that I powered up the one in the bedroom at 19:56, it is currently connected in Extend Wireless Network mode (the one in the kitchen is disconnected from the power) and has an average SNR of 59dB (and shows as 'Excellent' in Airport Utility) and so far it has not dropped the connection, but I am 99% certain that it will be back to blinking amber by tomorrow.

So there is one Airport Express in the living room which is the one that has created the wireless network, within the living room the Average SNR is around 60% (as you would expect as that is the unit that is wired to the ISP provided router).

Since I connected the one in the bedroom earlier this evening it has managed to stay connected and appears to still be extending the network, I checked it just now by standing next to it with WiFi Explorer open on my MacBook Pro and it showed an average SNR of 55%.

I ordered a 10 metre ethernet cable yesterday and I will try relocating the unit that is set to create the wireless network to a place in the living room that is closer to the bedroom and kitchen. It is currently on a shelf on the TV bank which is about two metres away from the wall closest to the kitchen.

I will report back here once I have moved it and set up the kitchen and bedroom boxes again. Hopefully this will allow the kitchen one to stay connected long enough for me to get a reading on WiFi Explorer.

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Answer 10

Feb 25, 2015 3:27 PM in response to The Obviator

Thanks, we will wait for your update.

At that time, we need to go over SNR with you, since the percentage numbers that you are looking at are not SNR readings.

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Answer 11

The Obviator Author

Level 1

6 points

Mar 2, 2015 10:44 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Just a brief update: I added the longer ethernet cable to the setup and relocated the living room base station. This seems to have solved completely the issues of dropped connectivity with the units in the bedroom and the kitchen, both have been in extend wireless network mode for the last two days without a hitch, music has been being played via AirPlay in the kitchen flawlessly, and WiFi connectivity across all devices is better wherever we are in the apartment.

So clearly the base station's signal was being severely impaired due to its previous location in the living room.

However, I would like to improve the performance of the kitchen airport, in Airport Utility, the best signal reading it gets is 'Good', whereas the bedroom one has 'Excellent' even though the bedroom one has, like the kitchen one, two walls between it and the base station, and what looks like even more plaster and other construction materials to get through.

I very much doubt that radio interference is to blame for this, but if you, Bob, have any suggestions on what could be done to improve the connection I would be grateful.

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Answer 12

Mar 2, 2015 11:11 AM in response to The Obviator

By now, I think that you already know the answer for obtaining a better signal for the kitchen AirPort Express.

For a wireless connection....

Move the AirPort Express closer to the main router

Move the main router closer to the AirPort Express

Move both the AirPort Express and main router closer to each other

Minimize obstructions in the signal path between the routers

Even two walls of average construction (not plaster) are going to absorb probably half of the signal passing through, so you may need to look at connecting the AirPort Express using a wired Ethernet connection. Thicker walls are going to absorb even more of the signal, as you might imagine.

If you cannot run the Ethernet cable (which will provide the best performance by far)....then you might want to take a look at a pair of Ethernet Over Powerline (EOP) adapters to send the Ethernet signal over the existing AC powerlines.

Your local computer / electronics superstore will have a selection of EOP devices. Ask the sales person which they would recommend for you....but....and this is an important BUT.....make sure that you understand the store's return policy before you buy......since you will not know how well......or if....the EOP adapters will work until you try them out in your home.

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