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Slow Burn >>>

Well, I'm another one of those old scholars who was waiting, and waiting to see if AAPL would pull a rabbit out of its hat and at least give us light at the end of the tunnel. No such luck. They are obviously, much to my profound sadness, gutting all the work that's been done on this platform and reconstruction Photo's for the masses. Anyone that is professional bent will be left behind.
I won't go into another diatribe how angry this makes me - after the years and years of investing in Aperture. It's not the migration that bothers me but the arrogance of AAPL of not even providing the meager tools to get our content out with the necessary meta and stacks. I should have learned from FinalCut.

So, that brings me to my post. There have been ongoing discussions for little more than a year about pros and cons of porting to LR. In my mind there really doesn't seem to any other choice. With all of the minutae around content ( tagging, metadata, keywords, non-destructive import, etc ) is there a completive list of what LR can and can NOT do ? I would appreciate a pointer that sums up where we are.
My situation is this > I have about 10,000 images ( about half are referenced masters on external drives ) that are still RAW/JPG. These are ALL edited heavily, meaning losing my edits is not an option. They are also ALL keyword and ALL color tagged. The color tagging is vitally important to my library. I have 8 different categorical portfolios that are pulled into smart albums though color tags.

I will use Aperture until it breaks, even if it's years from now however I would like to start taking steps in preparing for an export to LR.
Again, if anyone could point me to a 'hit list' of issues and how to handle them, greatly appreciated.


JJ

iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.4), 32 GB DDR3, Triple TB Display

Posted on Mar 4, 2015 5:29 PM

Reply
13 replies

Mar 4, 2015 9:11 PM in response to wombat2007

I have not seen one. I am working on a list of _all_ Aperture "metadata" — in quotes because I'm including all Aperture information in that category: Albums, Smart Albums, Project descriptions, etc. I don't know when or if I will finish my list 😟 .


One thing you can rely on is keywords. For instance, you might consider adding a keyword for each of Aperture's Color Labels. You could then mimic your Smart Albums that use color labels by the use of keywords in another program.


I expect to convert as much Aperture metadata as possible to keywords prior to moving to another image asset manager.


You might look at Capture One Pro. I like it better than LR, but I cannot vouch for its long-term use or recommend it (or LR) until I have more experience with them.

Mar 5, 2015 6:20 AM in response to Kirby Krieger

Kirby
Thanks - yes, I came to the same conclusion about the keywords. A royal PITA but I'm not sure how to get around it. So, LR does not include 'color' tagging ?I don't know squat about LR, hence my original question.
So, it sounds like you're converting EVERYTHING into keywords for an export - is that correct ?
I am also thinking about exporting VERSIONS ( high JPGs ) of everything I've done so I won't even risk any destructive editing issues, and starting over again.
I do not have any experience with CaptureOne either, but I am attracted to long-term ( obviously from my Aperture posts ) but I'm wondering if I'm looking for a marriage where kids aren't getting married anymore ? : >?

Please do mail any 'lists' or breakdown you may have, I think people would find it useful ?


Leonie ?

Mar 5, 2015 7:46 AM in response to wombat2007

Leonie ?

Kirby gave you a better answer than I will be able to provide. I am not planning on migrating from Aperture to a third-party application. And if I did, I would not migrate to an Adobe application. Adobe products products are very good and powerful, but I am not comfortable with the user interfaces and the integration with other Apple applications. The integration is very important for me.


Looking at my workflow, I noticed that I do not need much editing tools beyond what the new Photos.app will offer, since I try to get the photo right directly in the camera, so I do not need much editing. Cropping, straightening the horizon, white compensation, lighting and color, a retouch brush, sharpening is all available in Photos.app, keywords and captions.

Wat I can't do in Photos, has always been missing in Aperture as well: perspective correction and reverse geocoding. I've always used external editors for this.


What's sadly lacking in Photos is an interface to an external editor and any custom organization of the library in addition to the albums, smart albums, and predefined moments. Hopefully this will improve. For the time being I'll stick with Aperture for my main photo libraries and get started with Photos for the subset of photos that I want in iCloud. This subset will only be a small library, so the smart albums in Photos will suffice for my needs. Migrating to Photos is the only way to migrate all edited versions losslessly with all edits reversible. And I will gain the option to edit my photos in iCloud from any device. when traveling, I'll be able to load the photos onto the iPad, start editing, and find the edited photos on my iMac at home.

Mar 5, 2015 9:01 AM in response to wombat2007

I don't wanna sound snarky, but you should learn from your mistake, sort of. Don't necessarily focus on LR features vs Aperture features, but broaden your horizons a bit to devise a storage system that is independent of any application.


So take the image adjustments. You have to export those, and that means, unfortunately, a file. PSD, TIFF, JPEG are all pretty universal and application independent, so once it's done you're good. And you have the originals, hence at worst you reedit. What many folks are doing is exporting a smallish JPEG not as a final result, but as a visual template for what they want. An advantage of moving on is that you have a bunch of new RAW processors and image adjusters that might give you better results anyway.


Now metadata. You can impart all the organization info you have in Aperture (or anything else, for that matter) just by using the very standard, very common, very useful IPTC and exif info, and maybe even Finder folders. A project/folder/album structure can be replicated in LR's collection set/collection (there are some differences in rules for these structures, but nothing much important), but you can also do the same with hierarchical keywords. And the latter could be used anywhere; even in Spotlight and the Finder. Again, insurance against getting into this box canyon in the future. Just write all that metadata to the images or XMP sidecars.


There are some things that are difficult to translate directly. This is because they are metadata peculiar to the application, not standard IPTC or exif metadata that can be written to files. Star ratings, color labels, rejects/picks. But, as Photos does, these can be made into keywords easily. Again, some differences in rules: ratings and labels usually only allow for one option, keywords many. My photo can be two star rated, and in LR or Aperture could only be two star, but I could keyword it with "one star, two stars, three stars" etc. This also is textual, meaning that "greater than" type searches would be very different with a two star keyword vs a two star rating. But doable. That might inform your workflow going forward, or you could simply convert all those "two stars" keywords to two stars by a simple filter and click, and then delete the keywords.


Picks are sort of odd in Aperture; they aren't as visible as in LR, and they are only pick and no-pick, and have implications for stacks. But Aperture also has flag/no flag, separate from pick. LR just does pick/reject/none. And that's across everything without special cases in collections and stacks. It's translatable via keywords, but takes some getting used to.


TL;DR: you will have to export to preserve adjustments. You can save ALL the metadata via the use of keywords and other IPTC data written to the image files or sidecars, and in the long run, this is the best way to insure you don't get into this jam in the future, so consider changing your workflow to make it your normal practice. Focus on the universal IPTC and exif data fields for storing info, not what LR or C1 or Aperture or whatever stores in a proprietary database.

Mar 5, 2015 9:54 AM in response to Rob Gendreau

A looming issue with moving on, if that were to mean converting an existing library is space for retention of lossless images along with status adjustments.


My alpha Aperture Library is mostly RAW NEFs, has over 120,000 originals, for a volume size of 3.6 TB. Were I to export to perfection, I would only consider 16-bit TIFFs. That would result in a roughly 6 fold increase in needed storage space if originals are also retained, or say 21 TBs.


I am unlikely to be migrating existing images anytime soon. Some new camera might lead me to LR for new images, maybe . . . .


Ernie

Mar 5, 2015 10:03 AM in response to Rob Gendreau

I have always been writing EXIf and other metadata tags back to all originals. and Aperture makes it easy. But that takes only care of the image files, not of the photos and the relation between photos and their versions. when I migrate I will want a tool that can migrate the relational database of the photo library, not only the metadata of individual photos.

Mar 5, 2015 10:19 AM in response to léonie

Just got the following email from Apple to all users, or at least Aperture users:


User uploaded file

Dear Aperture customer,
Last June, we introduced the new Photos apps for iOS 8 and OS X Yosemite, along with
iCloud Photo Library, which lets you safely store all your photos in iCloud and access them
from anywhere.
When Photos for OS X launches this spring, Aperture will no longer be available for purchase
from the Mac App Store. You can continue to use Aperture on OS X Yosemite, but you will not
be able to buy additional copies of the app.
You can migrate your Aperture library to Photos for OS X, including your photos, adjustments,
albums, and keywords. After migrating, your Aperture library remains intact. However, Aperture
and Photos do not share a unified library, so any changes made after the migration will not be
shared between the apps.
To learn more about Photos for OS X, click here. If you’re interested in trying the OS X 10.10.3
Public Beta, which includes Photos for OS X, click here.
We thank you for using Aperture and hope you will enjoy the new Photos for OS X app.
Sincerely,
Apple

Mar 5, 2015 10:44 AM in response to Rob Gendreau

Rob


I don't wanna sound snarky, but you should learn from your mistake, sort of. Don't necessarily focus on LR features vs Aperture features, but broaden your horizons a bit to devise a storage system that is independent of any application.


Not snarky at all, intact a very helpful post. I'd like to copy your as a whole and respond specifically to points made.


So take the image adjustments. You have to export those, and that means, unfortunately, a file. PSD, TIFF, JPEG are all pretty universal and application independent, so once it's done you're good. And you have the originals, hence at worst you reedit. ? What many folks are doing is exporting a smallish JPEG not as a final result, but as a visual template for what they want. An advantage of moving on is that you have a bunch of new RAW processors and image adjusters that might give you better results anyway.

>>> So, you're suggesting keeping the RAW images and exporting out a JPG visual reference file. This assumes you lose the adjustments ion the RAW n the export into another program. For sake of discussion, lets just call it LR. While a good idea, I'm not willing to go back and 'redo' thousands of shots. In my mind they are done. While better processors might come along, that's just the nature of tech. If my hand is forced, I feel I'm going to have to lock in my adjustments and find a reasonable file export. To Ernie's point, if I take all my RAW to .TIFF you're looking at 5x the space. Really not an option. Obviously keeping the RAW and exporting is the best solution on paper, but the work involved seems like moving backwards to me.


Now metadata. You can impart all the organization info you have in Aperture (or anything else, for that matter) just by using the very standard, very common, very useful IPTC and exif info, and maybe even Finder folders. A project/folder/album structure can be replicated in LR's collection set/collection (there are some differences in rules for these structures, but nothing much important), but you can also do the same with hierarchical keywords. And the latter could be used anywhere; even in Spotlight and the Finder. Again, insurance against getting into this box canyon in the future. Just write all that metadata to the images or XMP sidecars.

>>> Yes, this seems to be the only exit.
"Just write all that metadata to the images or XMP sidecars." I'm not sure what 'sidecars' are how you would literally 'write out' this meta. Can you explain ?


There are some things that are difficult to translate directly. This is because they are metadata peculiar to the application, not standard IPTC or exif metadata that can be written to files. Star ratings, color labels, rejects/picks. But, as Photos does, these can be made into keywords easily. Again, some differences in rules: ratings and labels usually only allow for one option, keywords many. My photo can be two star rated, and in LR or Aperture could only be two star, but I could keyword it with "one star, two stars, three stars" etc. This also is textual, meaning that "greater than" type searches would be very different with a two star keyword vs a two star rating. But doable. That might inform your workflow going forward, or you could simply convert all those "two stars" keywords to two stars by a simple filter and click, and then delete the keywords.


>>> Yes, color tags and star ratings are core to my org. I am hoping that this is so basic, that LR will simply implement. I understand the general idea though. Take the current meta like stars, colors - filter them into a smart folder and then hit them with keywords for that attribute. This can then be assembled on the other side with keywords, and possibly brought into another more visual system ( like colors )




Picks are sort of odd in Aperture; they aren't as visible as in LR, and they are only pick and no-pick, and have implications for stacks. But Aperture also has flag/no flag, separate from pick. LR just does pick/reject/none. And that's across everything without special cases in collections and stacks. It's translatable via keywords, but takes some getting used to.


Understood.


TL;DR: you will have to export to preserve adjustments. You can save ALL the metadata via the use of keywords and other IPTC data written to the image files or sidecars, and in the long run, this is the best way to insure you don't get into this jam in the future, so consider changing your workflow to make it your normal practice. Focus on the universal IPTC and exif data fields for storing info, not what LR or C1 or Aperture or whatever stores in a proprietary database.


So, the obvious question is how does one get the meta to flow to IPTC from the beginning. ?? When I look at IPTC it really doesn't give me much. In Aperture, the important meta ( keywords, cam info, ratings, etc ) are all split up on different lists. How do you deal with this ?

Example of my 'flow' >> Arghhh.

User uploaded file

Mar 5, 2015 12:48 PM in response to Rob Gendreau

An excellent post, but, to my ear, you flatten a few issues that may be, for some, immaterial, while for others, of singular importance. Léonie has touched on two of these already in this thread, and put it so well I think it best to simply quote her (emphasis added):

But that takes only care of the image files, not of the photos and the relation between photos and their versions. when I migrate I will want a tool that can migrate the relational database of the photo library, not only the metadata of individual photos.



Migrating to Photos is the only way to migrate all edited versions losslessly with all edits reversible.


I suggest anyone looking for paths out of our dimming hole (what does one call an aperture that is closed?) consider these two issues carefully.


—Kirby.

Mar 5, 2015 1:01 PM in response to Ernie Stamper

My thought from this message is that I may may create a subset A Lib, and migrate it to Photos, and then with original Library retained, live in the hope that there are changes that will make Photos or another successor more friendly to total adoption.

That's what I am preparing to do: Migrate my five-star rated photos, that I would want on all devices and like to have in iCloud to Photos, and keep my working Aperture libraries as the main archive.

Mar 5, 2015 3:33 PM in response to léonie

Just downloaded the latest Aperture vers 3.6 raw digital compatibility 6.03 update.
This should be great news for Leica point and shoot owners and Nikon d5500 owners!
My own migration strategy is simply to wait for 'Photos' and then convert one small Aperture library to see how it goes. I am not going to mess with the beta version.
I have multiple iMac platforms updated to the latest Yosemite OSX running numerous Aperture 3.6 and iPhoto 9.6 libraries.
I also use the latest version of LR, and do duplicate imports for the RAW images I want to edit in LR from my Nikon DSLR's, after I import the same RAW/NEF images to the current version of Aperture. But I do not want to give up the Aperture 3.6 edits I have labored over, so I will continue running Aperture 3.6 until I am totally convinced that 'Photos' can replace it without losing my earlier edits.

Slow Burn >>>

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