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Installing MacPro5,1 Processor Tray into MacPro4,1

Hello,


I would like to change my 2009 Mac Pro 4.1 dual CPU 8-core to a single CPU 6-core. The reason is mainly for fun and because I would like to use HDMI audio and take advantage of the AES feature of the Intel Xeon 56xx series.


I know this is not supported. However, if I upgrade the firmware of the MacPro4.1 to MacPro5,1 using the "Mac Pro 2009-2010 Firmware Tool", can I replace the complete processor tray of my MacPro4,1 with a single CPU processor tray of a MacPro5,1? As far as I know, the hardware should be identical, except CPU and firmware.


Does anyone know if this is possible? Any thoughts?


Thanks!

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8)

Posted on Mar 12, 2015 3:06 PM

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Posted on Apr 4, 2017 11:26 AM

I tried doing this the other day "for science".


I have a 2009 Mac Pro that has had it's firmware upgraded to 5,1 and I tried to put a 2010 CPU tray (both the 2009 and 2010 are dual CPU trays) into it. It will definitely boot up and run but the fans are run at full blast the entire time. This is likely a result of the two trays having slightly different temperature sensing units from their slightly different CPU/Heatsink setups. The 2010 tray is somehow confusing the 2009 and as a result runs that fans on full blast.


So in short, it is doable but the fans will blow loud and create a small wind tunnel in your home office. I wouldn't recommend it being a long term solution.

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Apr 4, 2017 11:26 AM in response to voidcom

I tried doing this the other day "for science".


I have a 2009 Mac Pro that has had it's firmware upgraded to 5,1 and I tried to put a 2010 CPU tray (both the 2009 and 2010 are dual CPU trays) into it. It will definitely boot up and run but the fans are run at full blast the entire time. This is likely a result of the two trays having slightly different temperature sensing units from their slightly different CPU/Heatsink setups. The 2010 tray is somehow confusing the 2009 and as a result runs that fans on full blast.


So in short, it is doable but the fans will blow loud and create a small wind tunnel in your home office. I wouldn't recommend it being a long term solution.

Apr 5, 2017 10:24 AM in response to voidcom

as something of an aside form what you were trying to do - I bet you could get someone with a 5.1 single processor to trade you for your 4.1 dual. A lot of people are looking for the 4.1 dual processor because they can swap the processors for xeon 6 core and end up with a 12 core system. That is what I am doing.

Mar 12, 2015 4:38 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Thanks for the info. I've also seen http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/MacPro/2009_2010_Xeon_Processor/Apple_Mac _Pro_2009_2, but this is not what I'm planning to do. I do not wish to upgrade the 2 CPUs on my 4,1 processor board. I'm planning to completely replace it with a 1 CPU processor board of a MacPro5,1, replacing the complete tray.

Mar 12, 2015 9:11 PM in response to voidcom

That's not what I was suggesting either.


I suggest you call them and ask them your exact question above. They are generous with their support, and do not care whether you bought everything from them. If you can get to their experts on this issue, they will have the answers to your questions, and will not resent being asked. They have swapped more processor trays back and forth than you or I can count. They know what it takes to make each one work with every other one.


The number of Readers here who might have expertise in doing what you are proposing is extremely small.

Mar 13, 2015 2:22 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

I found an interesting post at http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,852.660.html. Here is a quote:


"The ONLY difference between the 2009, 2010 and 2012 models of Mac Pro is the firmware version (4.1 in 2009, 5.1 in 2010 and 2012), the SMC fan-speed controller version (1.39f5 in 2009, 1.39f11 in 2010-2012), and a slight difference in CPU mounting. The latter two models use CPUs with integrated heatspreaders intact and a standard Intel-style CPU caddy. The 2009 model uses CPUs without heatspreaders.... So upgrading your firmware means that you really DO get a REAL 2010/2012 model out of your 2009 model. It's the same hardware. Although if you sell it 2nd hand you have to admit that it's an upgrade, because "About This Mac" reads the serial number and says Mac Pro 2009."


This suggest that it is possible to interchange the 5,1 and 4,1 Processor boards, provided the computers use the same firmware. That pretty much is what others are writing or copying and that's good enough for me right now.


Anyway, meanwhile I decided to get a quad-core Processor board for the MacPro4,1 from ebay for $120. If it doesn't work I can send it back. If it works, I'm going to look for a 3 GHz 6-core X56xx processor, which I should get for another $150. For me that's a better option and also a bit cheaper than upgrading the 8-core Processor board. The quad-core also supports CPU's up to 130 W, unlike the 8-core, which apparently seems to max out at 95 W.


I'm not going to contact OWC right now, because it's too much hassle.

Mar 13, 2015 3:39 AM in response to voidcom

It is my understanding that the main issue is the MacPro5,1 firmware is required to support 6-core processors whether that is a single CPU or a dual CPU, so if you upgrade the firmware to MacPro5,1 level you should be fine.


I would also emphasise the issue of disclosing that it has been upgraded from a 2009 model should you ever sell it to avoid being accused of fraud.

Mar 13, 2015 4:03 AM in response to voidcom

The 2009 has a PCIe controller that shares the two 4x PCIe slots 3&4 so that they don't have the same independent bandwidth and performance as well as how that affects using PCIe controllers.


Meaning, it is not the same hardware even iwth 5,1 firmware, it is a 2009 with updated EFI.


And you can use 1333MHz memory of course.


The harder challenge was always going from single processor to dual. There are 4-core 3.2GHz that are available as well as your 3.4GHz 6-core.


Throwing in a SATA III or blade PCIe-SSD will make a nice upgrades.

Mar 13, 2015 5:30 AM in response to The hatter

Faster RAM up to 1333 MHz max. is a matter of the CPU and firmware upgrade. Apparently, with the 5,1 firmware patch to support the 6-core CPU, the 4,1 processor board will also support 1333 ECC registered RAM up to 16 MB per module.

The system has an Apple Raid Card installed and 4 ES SAS drives 2 TB each and an Apple ATI HD5870. Except for the stupid battery in RAID controller, I'm very happy with it and the performance. I'm not planning to upgrade the RAM or storage system. My main intention for the upgrade is for fun and a CPU with AES support that will hopefully make file vault a bit faster and HDMI with audio if I put in video card with HDMI output. Currently I'm using a mini-DV to HDMI with USB sound adapter, but the converter gets very hot.

I found some information that states the SMC controller on the 5,1 is different than the 4,1. Apparently the SMC firmware update from MacPro4,1 to 5,1 uses 1.39f5 and is not the same as the firmware 1.39f11 on the original 5,1. I found one source that claims the fan's go crazy when mixing 4,1 and 5,1 Processor boards, but I have not been able to find a 2nd source to confirm this info. The problem could have been something else.

Mar 21, 2015 3:02 AM in response to voidcom

I think I can answer the question now. There was a misunderstanding regarding the firmware upgrade tool to upgarde a Mac Pro 4,1 to 5,1. The firmware upgarde tool does not update the SMC firmware, but installs a different boot rom version.


Mac Pro 4,1 (2009): MP41.0081.B07 (original)

Mac Pro 5,1 (2009): MP51.007F.B03 (upgraded)

The system and CPU board SMC version remains at 1.39f5 for the MacPro 2009. A Mac Pro 2010 uses 1.39f11. After upgrading a Mac Pro 4,1 to 5,1, the SMC firmware was still 1.39f5. SMC mainly deals with temperatures and fan speeds. It is important that the SMC version of the CPU and system are the same.


So to answer my question, it is not possible to use a 5,1 CPU board in a 4,1 system or vise versa. I'm not sure what happens when mixing them, but apparently the system does either not boot or the fan's go crazy, perhaps depending whether you put a 5,1 cpu board into a 4,1 system or vise versa.


Here are some links I found meanwhile for reference:


http://forum.netkas.org/index.php?topic=852.0;wap2

http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,852.375.html

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/05/firmware-hack-can-transform-a-2009-mac-pro- into-a-12-core-monster/

Btw, the firmware upgrade tool 4,1 to 5,1 shows error 5570. That is because Apple changed the location of the 5,1 efi firmware image. You can however download the 5,1 firmware form Apple and simply mount the disk image prior to running the tool and it will work fine. Then shutdown the system and hold down the power button until a tone occurs, then the system will restart and show a progress bar to update the firmware.


Jul 21, 2015 10:05 PM in response to voidcom

Hi there void com, I joined this forum specifically to talk to you!


I have a few different mac pros and have done my own testing and I can pretty much confirm your findings!


At the moment I have a MacPro4,1 - Quad Core 2.66Ghz

MacPro4,1 - 2x Quad Core (8 Core) 2.26Ghz

MacPro5,1 - 2x Quad Core (8 Core) 2.4Ghz


The 5,1 logic board doesn't seem to be working and I have tested it with different power supply and still won't turn on so I wanted to see if the processor tray and the two 2.4Ghz processors were okay. Basically what I did was update the firmware BootEFI on the 4,1 QC to 5,1 and put the 5,1 tray with the 8C Processor into it. It WORKED! but fans went crazy... I am still searching to see if there is a way for me to mix 4,1 logic board and 5,1 daughterboard/processor tray but don't think it will work due to the different SMC Versions.


I know another way is for me to pull the CPUs out of the 5,1 tray and put them into the 8C 4,1 tray but basically want I wanted was TWO WORKING 8C machines.


Another issue for me is that the RAM isn't recognised as 1333Mhz after i updated the 4,1 to 5,1. Doesn't matter if I am using the QC Single CPU Tray or the 8C Dual CPU Tray. 1333Mhz ram will show up as 1066Mhz. Any ideas on that?



Anyway, feel free to reply back to this thread or drop me an email on my username-at-gmail-com!

Jul 22, 2015 4:20 AM in response to jam7611

As far as I know, the speed of your RAM depends on what your CPU and chipset supports. The 4,1 -> 5.1 upgrade allows to install a newer CPU Xeon 5600 series, that supports 1333 RAM. I suggest you type your CPU into Google to see what RAM speed it supports. Also when mixing different speeds of RAM, the lowest will rule. However, speaking of performance, you won't notice a difference between 1066 and 1333 RAM. I think the reason is latency vs frequency.

Installing MacPro5,1 Processor Tray into MacPro4,1

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