fausttiger
Level 1 (13 points)
Desktops

Q: Upgrade advice - looking for a stopgap MacPro

Retiring my MacPro 1,1  4-core  to   4,1 or 5,1..     

 

Doing this in part now because Lion isn't supported by security updates anymore... and that's as far as I can go with the 1,1.

Ideally, I'd get a   new Cylinder 6-core 2013 MacPro with 32G and 1TB SSD.... but are looking for a stopgap MacPro until I have $5000+ to burn on that config, plus waiting for a new MacPro refresh to iron out any bugs in the initial 2013 model.

 

so in the $1100 - 1500 range since I'll replace it within a couple years with a new one.

 

 

My MacPro1,1 (12G with slightly newer main 1TB and time machine 3T drives from Apple in the sleds (revision 2.0)  with Radeon 5770 added for compatibility.)

 

While I have more recent versions of CC and FCP... my highest demand is running high end IBM and SPSS analytics software under Parallels/Windows 7...   so 6 or 8 cores would be best used to allocate half those cores to the Parallels VM... to allow good speed on both Mac and VM.   Right now I have to give 2 cores and 6G to each.

 

I need to run FIleVault2 on all drives.    And I'd be running  Yosemite (for compatibility reasons with apps).

 

 

 

I'm looking at the OWC machines...  2009 or 2010...   upgrading to at least 16G ram...    I can move my 5770 over... and move my 3TB over for TimeMachine.

 

4-core,  6-core or 8-core...        looks like OWC sometimes  takes 4-core models and places an 6-core or 8-core single processor into them (otherwise the model numbers and Ghz don't make sense)

 

Is the 2010 vs 2009 really a huge performance upgrade on system architecture?

 

Is the DDR 1066 vs 1333 only governed by the processor  (4/8  vs 6/12 cores).... or are their  system bus limits on  2009 vs 2010?

 

Is the fact that 2009 uses 32bit or 64bit kernel,  and   2010 uses 64bit kernel by default...   affect compatibility going forward?

( Mac OS X v10.6: Compatibility with the 64-bit kernel - Apple Support  )... although I'm going to 10.10.

 

 

 

As I do need to run FileVault on all drives....

...I'm concerned about adding  OWD SSD's  (SATA or PCIe)... and their bundles are all 240G SSDs,  and I'd rather use 480G  (but OWC doesn't let you upgrade the difference in bundle, you have to buy a new drive...  so if even done it would be a non-SSD used bundled with SSD added).

 

As this is a stopgap before purchasing a   "new" MacPro within a couple years... I'd think a SSD may be pushing up the price (plus power and heat) too much.   Plus the filevault2 concern with a non-Apple SSD.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts...


Tony

 

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Posted on Mar 15, 2015 9:14 AM

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fausttiger

Q: Upgrade advice - looking for a stopgap MacPro

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  • by fausttiger,

    fausttiger fausttiger Jul 1, 2015 11:44 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 1, 2015 11:44 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    Looking at a 3.33Mhz  6-core Mac Pro ... 2010 or 2012...   (not flashed).

     

    Primary question is  2010 vs 2012 chassis?

    is an extra $300 for the 2012 really worth it?  in terms of wear and tear on the power supply, slots, ports, etc...      Would be placing 3x8G =24G Triple channel.. and  5770 or 5870.   I know 2010 and 2012 is almost the same, just thinking about one being 2 years older.   $300 buys RAM and 5870 upgrade.

     

    OS

    I have to run Yosemite (and eventually El Capitan)

     

    Cores

    I did note that a  2012 quad 3.2Mhz doesn't appear to support the AES encryption instructions (for faster Filevault2)... but 6-core xeon does..    plus using extra cores for running VM's with high end analytics in Windows or Linux.   Plus 6 cores has faster Ram.


    Storage

    Will use 1TB with replacement machine, and pull my 3TB volume for TimeMachine from MacPro1,1 (that drive is a newer one than original)

    Not putting in SSD because I need to run Yosemite...      and new Mac pro is 3x plus....     in a perfect world I'd place a 1TB SSD in new Mac, but saving $$$ for now and don't want to mess with trim/issues in Yosemite (and need Filevault and reliable drive)

     

    Thanks!

  • by The hatter,

    The hatter The hatter Jul 1, 2015 12:04 PM in response to fausttiger
    Level 9 (60,935 points)
    Jul 1, 2015 12:04 PM in response to fausttiger

    threads to read

     

    CPU Upgrade

     

    10,10,4 has native TRIM - for everyone "trimforce" command so that SM951 etc

     

    Best GPU today GTX 980

     

    You can get a lot more mileage out of a Classic Mac Pro than the black cylinder generally. More for the buck definitely.

     

    And I would guess nothing until six months after the fall Intel Dev Conference and TB3 and more PCIe lanes in next Xeons.

  • by Network 23,

    Network 23 Network 23 Jul 1, 2015 12:25 PM in response to The hatter
    Level 6 (12,043 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 1, 2015 12:25 PM in response to The hatter

     

    fausttiger wrote:

    in terms of wear and tear on the power supply, slots, ports, etc...      Would be placing 3x8G =24G Triple channel.. and  5770 or 5870.   I know 2010 and 2012 is almost the same, just thinking about one being 2 years older.

    Wear and tear...well, these things are built like tanks. I'm still using a 2006, I've upgraded the graphics card twice, changed out the RAM, changed out the drives...still running so great.

     

    I was going to add the bit about SSD TRIM now possible in Yosemite but the Hatter beat me to it.

    The hatter wrote:

     

    10,10,4 has native TRIM - for everyone "trimforce" command so that SM951 etc

     

    Best GPU today GTX 980

    I think you should go with Hatter's GPU suggestion, especially if you'll be running recent graphics apps. I'm running a Sapphire 7950 but the GTX 980 is better.

  • by fausttiger,

    fausttiger fausttiger Jul 1, 2015 4:46 PM in response to The hatter
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 1, 2015 4:46 PM in response to The hatter

    Hatter,

     

    > CPU Upgrade

    On your CPU Upgrade link… are you're referencing Boot Camp issues with Windows activation & new processor?    In Parallels, I don't think the underlying Xeon matters as far as Windows 7  image is concerned.   There is some  "networking" setting is asks about when I've previously moved the VM image to another machine, which I didn't change to avoid triggering some Windows re-activation issue.  Networking continues tho work fine.     Parallels 10 doesn't run on my MacPro 1,1 (due to EFI) with 10.7 nor does VirtualBox,  but  Parallels 9 runs fine.    Run Parallels 10 on my MacBook Pro with 10.10.

     

    > GPUs

    From a cost standpoint, if moving past 5870…    I'd probably do the 7950 over the GTX 980… cheaper and I can get $140 to $200 trade-in to OWC from an existing 5770 or 5870.

     

    Is there even a  GTx 980 "mac edition" or you need to flash something.    I'm always concerned about heat, power or compatibility issues if flashing is involved.

     

    For high end graphics, it would mostly be a game or something demanding like Second Life.   My extra cores are for  high end IBM & SPSS analytics software running in Windows VMs.

     

     

    >>And I would guess nothing until six months after the fall Intel Dev Conference and TB3 and more PCIe lanes in next Xeons.

     

    Yes, I've stopped waiting for the next Mac Pro refresh…  plus don't want to spend the cost right now anyhow…    6 core with 1TB SSD and 32G would be too pricey!

  • by fausttiger,

    fausttiger fausttiger Jul 1, 2015 4:50 PM in response to Network 23
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 1, 2015 4:50 PM in response to Network 23

    Network23

     

    >> Wear and tear...well, these things are built like tanks. I'm still using a 2006, I've upgraded the graphics card twice, changed out the RAM, changed out the drives...still running so great.

     

    Yes, still running my MacPro 1,1 2006… mostly 24/7 without problems.   new graphics cards,  extra ram,   replaced a couple drives.   But no "security" updates support for Lion is a killer, and   not messing with EFI updates and other tricks to squeeze it a little further along.

     

    When buying a used Mac Pro, you just don't know how the last guy treated his…   over clocked, over heated, noisy power supplies… or treated it just right!

  • by Network 23,

    Network 23 Network 23 Jul 1, 2015 4:58 PM in response to fausttiger
    Level 6 (12,043 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 1, 2015 4:58 PM in response to fausttiger

    fausttiger wrote:

     

    When buying a used Mac Pro, you just don't know how the last guy treated his…   over clocked, over heated, noisy power supplies… or treated it just right!

    I see. That is a consideration for sure.

     

    My 2006 Mac Pro is up to Mavericks, it wasn't that hard to do, even though I am really not command line oriented. There are people running Yosemite on it and since they say El Capitan will support the same Macs as Yosemite, eventually I expect to give that a try.

     

    Maybe it was already mentioned but have you heard of macvidcards.com? They are another place to find graphics cards prepared specifically for Mac Pros.

     

    I do like my 7950. The slower bus of my old Mac Pro cripples the card somewhat, but all the software that I wanted to be supported so far has gotten the acceleration I wanted. (I just do photos and video and don't pay video games.)

     

    At the risk of hijacking this thread (feel free to tell me to start a new one), does anyone know if a Mac Pro 1,1 is capable of driving a 4K display at 30fps with my 7950 or the GTX 980, or any GPU?

  • by fausttiger,

    fausttiger fausttiger Jul 1, 2015 5:19 PM in response to Network 23
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 1, 2015 5:19 PM in response to Network 23

    Network,

     

    How is the fan noise on your 7950?

  • by Network 23,

    Network 23 Network 23 Jul 1, 2015 5:24 PM in response to fausttiger
    Level 6 (12,043 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 1, 2015 5:24 PM in response to fausttiger

    fausttiger wrote:

     

    Network,

     

    How is the fan noise on your 7950?

    I think it is acceptable, but I wish it was a little quieter. My earlier video cards (stock, then 4870) were less noticeable and at times practically silent. When rendering video the 7950 is certainly making fan noise and pushing a lot of hot air out the back (or is that because I now have all RAM slots filled?). But I don't find the noise offensive.

     

    I believe what I like about the noise is that it's more of a rushing sound, and not a grating helicopter buzz sound that some fans are. So while it's audible, it's tolerable.

  • by fausttiger,

    fausttiger fausttiger Jul 17, 2015 8:07 PM in response to fausttiger
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 17, 2015 8:07 PM in response to fausttiger

    I ended up getting a used  2010 6-core 3.3.mhz Mac Pro... with 5870, and  24G  (3 x 8G for triple channel)... 10.10.4  running nicely.... for about $1500 tax included.

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jul 17, 2015 8:21 PM in response to fausttiger
    Level 9 (61,390 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 17, 2015 8:21 PM in response to fausttiger

    Does it do what you want?

     

    Are there any surprises?

     

    How does it compare to the old one?

  • by fausttiger,

    fausttiger fausttiger Mar 19, 2016 10:54 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Mar 19, 2016 10:54 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    Overall... the    2010 Mac Pro 6-core 3.33  has been running fine without issue.  much faster of course.

     

    In hindsight, I might have spent the extra $225 for the 2012 chassis  instead of the  2010...   as   Metal is only supported for 2012 and beyond, but I'm doing heavy computation rather than heavy graphics (but every reduction of overhead helps).    Ran Yosemite for awhile and only recently upgraded to El Capitan.

     

    Also have a 2015 Macbook Pro 15 Retina... for which the SSD really helps.    I didn't put on one into this MacPro because of all the issues with supporting SSD in non-Apple drives  and I also run FileVault on everything.

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Mar 19, 2016 11:45 AM in response to fausttiger
    Level 9 (61,390 points)
    Desktops
    Mar 19, 2016 11:45 AM in response to fausttiger

    Metal is only supported for 2012 and beyond,

              Metal is only supported for BEYOND 2012 and beyond, not on any silver tower Mac Pro models, according to this article:


    List of Mac computers that support Metal - Apple Support


    .

  • by fausttiger,

    fausttiger fausttiger Mar 19, 2016 11:51 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Mar 19, 2016 11:51 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    Thanks for pointing out that clarification Grant.  Well then no buyers remorse on my 2010 vs 2012 chassis...   I  put that money towards more RAM  (in tri-channel mode for a little extra speed ...  3 x 8G on my 6-core).   

     

    Only think I could do would be replace the 5870 Mac Edition with a 7950 Mac Edition. ... but don't really think my graphics needs require it, would be planning for the future while actual non-flashed Mac 7950's are available

  • by kahjot,

    kahjot kahjot Mar 19, 2016 12:49 PM in response to fausttiger
    Level 4 (1,416 points)
    Desktops
    Mar 19, 2016 12:49 PM in response to fausttiger

    Congrats on your new silver friend. That's a great machine.

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