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PurpleSpresso

Q: Time Machine: please don't delete my old backup!

Hi, i do not want time machine to delete my oldest backup, because it hast data included i did not migrate to my current system..

 

Thank you!

Posted on Mar 22, 2015 2:01 PM

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Q: Time Machine: please don't delete my old backup!

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  • by Marco g,

    Marco g Marco g Dec 1, 2015 9:13 AM in response to PurpleSpresso
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 1, 2015 9:13 AM in response to PurpleSpresso

    Again, there is an option called "Notify me AFTER old backups are deleted". Who would want this? A system that deletes personal data and THEN informs about this? Is this some kind of a joke, or did apple find no better solution (e.g. warn BEFORE deleting)?

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Dec 1, 2015 10:04 AM in response to Marco g
    Level 10 (105,008 points)
    Wireless
    Dec 1, 2015 10:04 AM in response to Marco g

    Suggest that you spend a minute or two looking at Time Machine Preferences which tells you up front what Time Machine will do. You must have missed this somehow.

     

    Screen Shot 2015-12-01 at 11.58.00 AM.png

  • by Marco g,

    Marco g Marco g Dec 1, 2015 10:18 AM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 1, 2015 10:18 AM in response to Bob Timmons

    Bob Timmons, no, i did not miss this setting at all. I know the behaviour of Time Machine very well. What i don't know is why you are telling me this. This has nothing to do with the topic: "Time Machine: please don't delete my old backup!". Did you miss that? I have no idea why you advocate Apple here.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Dec 1, 2015 10:32 AM in response to Marco g
    Level 9 (50,245 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 1, 2015 10:32 AM in response to Marco g

    If you don't like the way Time Machine works use something else.

  • by Drew Reece,

    Drew Reece Drew Reece Dec 1, 2015 10:34 AM in response to Marco g
    Level 5 (7,490 points)
    Notebooks
    Dec 1, 2015 10:34 AM in response to Marco g

    Marco g wrote:

     

    Again, there is an option called "Notify me AFTER old backups are deleted". Who would want this? A system that deletes personal data and THEN informs about this? Is this some kind of a joke, or did apple find no better solution (e.g. warn BEFORE deleting)?

    Yup informing AFTER a deletion is bad news, I agree. You have not explained how you think Time Machine should operate, another option would be to prevent any new backups when a disk is full - how happy would you be if TM stopped baking up altogether? It seems like TM is designed for the broadest of use cases - for non advanced users, not necessarily everyone fits into that category.

     

    It looks like you are using it incorrectly (or have expectations beyond what it does), as a rolling backup it cannot be relied upon to keep old data forever. If you need a copy of old files you need to use an alternative backup method (many other apps will create archives), otherwise Time Machine will eventually fail you like this.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Dec 1, 2015 10:35 AM in response to Marco g
    Level 9 (50,245 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 1, 2015 10:35 AM in response to Marco g

    Marco g wrote:

     

    Csound1, i don't understand your attitude at all. Time Machine is deleting old Backups without any notification and without the possibility to prevent this. I just lost 1 Year of Backups. This behaviour is unacceptable.

    Then don't allow the drive to fill up.

  • by Marco g,

    Marco g Marco g Dec 1, 2015 10:59 AM in response to Drew Reece
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 1, 2015 10:59 AM in response to Drew Reece

    And Drew, i don't have to explain how Time Machine should work (even though the Title of this thread suggests it: "please don't delete my old backup!"). It is Apples job to solve this. but since you asked: an option "Notify me BEFORE old backups are deleted" would be nice.

  • by Drew Reece,

    Drew Reece Drew Reece Dec 1, 2015 11:11 AM in response to Marco g
    Level 5 (7,490 points)
    Notebooks
    Dec 1, 2015 11:11 AM in response to Marco g

    Marco g wrote:

     

    And Drew, i don't have to explain how Time Machine should work (even though the Title of this thread suggests it: "please don't delete my old backup!"). It is Apples job to solve this. but since you asked: an option "Notify me BEFORE old backups are deleted" would be nice.

    Please post that request to Apples feedback page (as already mentioned in this thread)…

    http://apple.com/feedback/

     

    Time Machine is designed to delete old backups, given enough time & limited backup space that is simply inevitable. The notifications are troublesome, but you accept that by using the system.

     

    We are just other users here trying to help people who have issues, your issue appears to be related to a mismatch between how Time Machine works & how you think it should work. Take that however you want, personally I was trying to help you choose the right tool for the right task, if that bothers you, so be it.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Dec 1, 2015 12:08 PM in response to Marco g
    Level 10 (105,008 points)
    Wireless
    Dec 1, 2015 12:08 PM in response to Marco g
    It is Apples job to solve this

    Solve what?  Time Machine is doing exactly what it says that it will do. Nothing more, nothing less.

     

    Don't like that?  Tell Apple, but don't whine here about Time Machine doing what it told you it would do upfront.....and you said that you understood upfront.

  • by Chitwood ,

    Chitwood Chitwood Dec 8, 2015 10:05 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (8 points)
    iTunes
    Dec 8, 2015 10:05 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Help

  • by Red and Blue,

    Red and Blue Red and Blue Apr 16, 2016 3:07 AM in response to Marco g
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Apr 16, 2016 3:07 AM in response to Marco g

    I agree that behavior is unacceptable. First I didn't realize that turning time machine off prevents automatic backups but you can still browse and restore; more on this later. I don't keep backup disks hooked up, only when I want to do a backup periodically. When one backup disk got near full I intended to put it aside but I saw it started cleaning up backups, which I wasn't sure what that was--I had restored my system from backup with this disk and it seemed to start a new backup, almost doubling the amount of space used, so I thought it was consolidating. It didn't seem to delete any backups at that time. Problem is I went to search for something from it and it started backing up without me realizing it and then informed me it had deleted 2 backups and had cleared 50 GB (on a 2TB disc) I thought that would be a buffer but I went to restore something else and while I was doing that, even though I didn't see it happen at first, it started backing up again this time it deleted the next oldest backup, but this time gave me no notice that had been done and it now deleted a whopping 400+ GB--I didn't realize it would try to clear space for the cumulative additions to my computer since that disk was last backed up. Luckily, things I really wanted to save I had not deleted from my computer and those things that I did were in newer backups, but I still would've liked to have kept those deleted files, mostly videos. I'm thinking of using a recovery program since I don't think they are overwritten.

     

    I didn't realize that turning time machine off prevents backups from happening automatically when you reconnect or at periodic times unless you manually start a backup. Someone mentioned it can reconnect on it's own. Is turning it off a secure method of preventing it from backing up? You can still browse and restore files with Time Machine turned off, which is what I need to be able to do--this is something that Apple does not make clear at first. If you unplug the charger and have not selected back up from battery it will also not back up; perhaps a double safeguard with turning it off. So one solution to using Time Machine as an archive would be to make sure Time Machine is off and/or the charger unplugged when connecting an older backup disk. I guess another problem is that if you have to get a new computer it may be tricky to get it to recognize older backup disks, from what I understand. So how does one copy things out of Time Machine backup disks to an archive disk? Is there a way to do it directly or does it have to be restored to the Mac and then archived?

  • by blackdogaudio,

    blackdogaudio blackdogaudio Apr 16, 2016 6:38 AM in response to Marco g
    Level 3 (675 points)
    Mac OS X
    Apr 16, 2016 6:38 AM in response to Marco g

    Marco,

     

    With all due respect, and as others have stated, consider not fighting the inherent limitations of all back up systems (Time Machine included) that do not fully meet your needs. Instead, let it perform as designed which is to provide automated backups of your most recent data and then supplement TM with a manual backup of your most critical data that cannot be lost under any circumstance. This is what I've done for the past five years as a relative new comer to the Apple ecosystem.

     

    I use TM to backup to my Time Capsule as designed with a manual archive backup of my most sensitive data to an external USB hard drive attached to my iMac only when that data changes. After the manual backup has been completed on the external USB drive, I disconnect the USB drive and store it in a locked cabinet until the data changes. It's a minor inconvenience but certainly worth the time and effort to ensure my most critical data stays intact.

     

    You should never rely on one backup strategy regardless as drives fail,  software gets corrupt, users make mistakes accidentally erasing drives, etc. Take it from someone who's learned this the hard way after losing a semester's worth of course work back in my college days and spending hundreds of hours recreating work for several weeks instead of living life...

     

    regards,

     

    Dave

  • by Drew Reece,

    Drew Reece Drew Reece Apr 16, 2016 10:01 AM in response to Red and Blue
    Level 5 (7,490 points)
    Notebooks
    Apr 16, 2016 10:01 AM in response to Red and Blue

    If you don't like how Time Machine behaves just don't use it - it seems harsh but you seem to be fighting against how it is designed to work. You are also overthinking & 'second guessing' what it might do & why it might do it - this is a sign that you are expecting more control than it offers. It's an Apple product- connect a backup disk turn it on & forget about it. Backup important data independantly to TM.

     

    You are using Time Machine in ways that I think are not intended - disabling & reconnecting backup disks & then expecting backups to safely resume in future. I don't think that is how TM is meant to work.

     

    Your Mac can generate masses of changed files between backups, this is even worse when you upgrade to a new OS - TM will eventually do 'its job' & delete old data. Also bear in mind internal disks are backed up too - this is a simple way to accidentally add many GBs of data to a TM backup.

     

    I think you would be better with an app that informs you BEFORE deletion or can allow you to preview changes in a backup set (Carbon Copy Cloner, Chronosync are more controllable & can be automated). They can also keep history in addition to the current state of files.

     

    Maybe others will help you resolve your TM issues, you seem to be wanting it to function as an 'archive' when it is designed as a 'rolling backup'.

     

    As for trying file recovery on a TM disk good luck with that - depending on how you recover you may get many copies of files - TM has at least one copy of a file, but many file system entries can point to it. Some tools can recover each entry as a unique file making backup size inflate massively.

  • by Red and Blue,

    Red and Blue Red and Blue Apr 16, 2016 5:01 PM in response to blackdogaudio
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Apr 16, 2016 5:01 PM in response to blackdogaudio

    Yes, I was trying to use Time Machine is a manual archive backup, I don't really have the space where I work to keep an external hard drive attached all the time anyway. And I think it could work as that with the safeguards mentioned, although problems using it with a new computer might turn up. One problem is that Apple does not clearly inform new users of its limitations; that's why a lot of people are discovering them too late. Do you mind if I ask what is the USB backup drive you use? I record a lot of videos which add up in file size, and I like to keep most things, not just selected critical things. So I would need the capacity of multi-terabyte disk.

  • by Red and Blue,

    Red and Blue Red and Blue Apr 16, 2016 5:14 PM in response to Drew Reece
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Apr 16, 2016 5:14 PM in response to Drew Reece

    As I mentioned just previously, Apple does not clearly inform new users of the limitations of Time Machine, and it seems many learn the hard way. However, I don't see why time machine can't be used as a backup archive, now that I realize how to keep the disc from further back ups and deletions, except it might be a problem migrating to a new machine. By the way I have not disabled the backups, I was just attempting, and now know how to safely use them with a manual backup (and browse older discs without activating a backup). I have no problem with the amount of space that it uses in an external hard disk, I would just buy more.

     

    Be that as it may, if there's a better solution I'm open to it--you mention Carbon Copy, Cloner, and Chronosync--are these programs that can use with an external disk? And which would you recommend as the most reliable and easiest to retrieve files from?

     

    Thanks for the info about attempting recovery from Time Machine.

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