New Internet wifi network reconfiguration

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Level 1

8 points

New Internet wifi network reconfiguration

Please help me figure out this mess that needs to be reconfigured. I have been going in circles with Comcast support, Arris TG862G modem/router, Apple airport manuals, and Apple support forum postings for the past week and things are still not working correctly. The goal is to have my Comcast modem/router handle telephone/fax, printer, and internet signal (~105 Mbps) to the house. Then, I want to set up wireless throughout using Apple base stations. This house is 1700 sq ft with a concrete basement, 1st and 2nd floors. Every floor has desktops and needs wireless and/or ethernet for iphones, ipads, mac laptops, apple tv, directv, and audio receiver. All devices are apple except a gaming desktop PC in the basement and an old non-wireless PC on the 2nd floor. I have a brand new Airport Extreme (802.11ac model = A1521) , Time Capsule (802.11n model = A1409), and Airport Express (802.11n model = A1392) to configure a wireless network plus lots of ethernet too. All of my equipment is once again disconnected as it kept taking down my modem/router which is on 1st floor. I'm going to factory reset all of the base stations, relocate them (suggestions?) and start from scratch as multiple attempts have made a complete mess of things. Here are my present concerns and issues:

1) After I put the Arris TG862G modem/router into bridge mode and run the ethernet to the wan port on the first base station, should I set up the base stations in 'DHCP only' or 'DHCP and NAT' using airport utility?

2) If I set up the base stations (connected using ethernet) in this order Extreme, TimeCapsule, Express should configuration be the following?

Extreme -> create a new network
TimeCapsule -> extend a new network
Express -> extend a new network

3) Is a base station password the same as the network password? I was confused about this and used the same password for both on every base station device. This seems to have confused the base stations. When I bring up airport utility, each base station appears like 'myGivenName(2)' rather than 'myGivenName'. Even prior resets are not wiping this out.

4) If I select 'off' rather than 'create a new network' or 'extend a new network' does this simply make the base station a fancy ethernet hub?

I appreciate any help since this very simple process has turned into a nightmare (picture family demanding action) :-(

Posted on Mar 25, 2015 8:20 PM

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Answer 1

Best reply

LaPastenague

Level 9

67,202 points

Mar 25, 2015 10:35 PM in response to revm3up

(picture family demanding action) :-(

Ugly.. its the tub of hot tar and bags of feathers that is really bad.

1) After I put the Arris TG862G modem/router into bridge mode and run the ethernet to the wan port on the first base station, should I set up the base stations in 'DHCP only' or 'DHCP and NAT' using airport utility?

Let me suggest this is not great way to do it.. in terms of reliable operation.. it is often best to leave the TG862G doing its thing.. plug the Extreme in and have that bridged and create a new wireless network.. is there a reason not to do it this way??

The goal is to have my Comcast modem/router handle telephone/fax, printer, and internet signal (~105 Mbps) to the house.

Bridging the TG862G probably doesn't mess up the phone (it could though) but it is triple use device and really designed to be used as the main router.

Answer this one and we can give you a guide to do the rest. However just so you know the rest of the project is pretty easy..

Extreme -> create a new network Yes, this is wireless network.. but the Extreme is in bridge.
TimeCapsule -> extend a new network Better if it connected by ethernet to the extreme.. but if that is not possible wireless extend is OK.
Express -> extend a new network No problem.

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Answer 2

revm3up Author

Level 1

8 points

Mar 26, 2015 11:55 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks for your response! The ugliness is subsiding somewhat. Let me clarify what I have done so far. Firstly, I factory reset all the apple base stations and set up the extreme with short network and base station names using only alpha-numerics as you suggested in your prior postings. Also, I applied your information to pwd creations. Yosemite seems to be very happy as it can finally resolve these without confusion. Next, I called my internet provider and they put the modem/router in partial bridge mode (SSID broadcast and radio wifi have been disabled, but DHCP is still enabled). This leaves the apple wireless network running without any competition. I ran ethernet from the Arris TG862G modem/router (1st floor location) to the WAN port of the apple extreme (basement location). I used 'create new wireless network' option and left it in off (bridge mode). The extreme base station communicated immediately with the modem/router and now broadcasts a robust wireless signal. Now, I'd like to add the time capsule to this wireless network, but I still have a point of confusion. I will be connecting the time capsule (2nd floor location, WAN port) to the extreme (basement location, LAN port) via ethernet. I believe this qualifies as 'a roaming network' so my selection should be to 'extend a new network'? I am still confused about create vs. extend selection when base stations are connected using ethernet.

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Answer 3

revm3up Author

Level 1

8 points

Mar 26, 2015 1:28 PM in response to revm3up

Okay I see a new issue regarding the roaming network setup I described above using the apple manual https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT4260. For my primary wifi base station (extreme) I should set Connection Sharing to "Share a public IP address" and added ethernet connected base stations such as my time capsule to "Off(Bridge Mode). I decipher this as selecting 'DHCP and NAT" over "Off(Bridge Mode)". I had this originally, but there was a double NAT error on the extreme because my modem/router remains not fully bridged (only radio wifi and SSID broadcast have been disabled) and so, DHCP and NAT responsibilities are still handled by the modem/router.

Could this be occuring because I did not connect all the base stations together prior to setting up the primary wifi base by itself? I have worked so many issues to this point I was trying a one at a time approach. Perhaps, I need to fully connect all the ethernet to devices first and then do the primary setup?

Otherwise, at this point, it seems creating a roaming wireless network using ethernet, I would need to fully bridge the modem/router, set primary wifi base station to handle DHCP and NAT, and set additionally connected wifi base stations to off (bridge mode).

Alternatively, is there a way to reserve the IP address used by the extreme so that it is excluded from the DHCP Range in the network tab of airport utility?

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Answer 4

Tesserax

Level 10

148,423 points

Mar 26, 2015 2:04 PM in response to revm3up

Now, I'd like to add the time capsule to this wireless network, but I still have a point of confusion. I will be connecting the time capsule (2nd floor location, WAN port) to the extreme (basement location, LAN port) via ethernet. I believe this qualifies as 'a roaming network' so my selection should be to 'extend a new network'?

No, the correct setting would be "Create a wireless network." A roaming network works because each wireless router is broadcasting their own Wi-Fi network, but this network is using the same network name (or SSID), wireless encryption type and password. To a wireless client these networks will look like one big one. Each base station you interconnect by Ethernet should be configured the same way. That is, as a minimum, 1) configured as a bridge, 2) use the same network name (but different base station names), and the same wireless encryption type and password.

Apple uses the term "extended" when referring to either a wireless or wired connected network. Which can be confusing. Bottom line: Use "create a wireless network" when the connections will be wired, and use "extend a wireless network" when those same connection will be wireless.

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Answer 5

Tesserax

Level 10

148,423 points

Mar 26, 2015 2:13 PM in response to revm3up

For my primary wifi base station (extreme) I should set Connection Sharing to "Share a public IP address"

As you want your "main" router to provide both NAT & DHCP services. When you contacted Comcast and placed your gateway device into partial bridge mode, it's not actually in bridge mode at all. All they did was disable its wireless radios. It will still be providing routing services (NAT & DHCP). This would cause a "Double NAT" condition as you already have found out. That is because you now have two routers in series with NAT enabled on both. You can resolve this simply by reconfiguring the Extreme as a bridge, i.e., Router Mode = Off (Bridge Mode). You can still have a roaming network configuration with it and the other two base stations. This way all network clients, no matter which router they are connected to, will get the proper IP address information from your Comcast-provided router and be on the same subnet.

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Answer 6

revm3up Author

Level 1

8 points

Mar 26, 2015 8:10 PM in response to revm3up

Thanks to all who helped me out by answering the questions of others (from older posts in this forum) and answering my specific questions above. It took me a week, but my wireless network is now fully functioning robustly! You really clarified the issues that had me totally baffled. Apple could easily tweak those support manuals regarding the 'create a new ntwk' vs 'extend a new ntwk' which really had my head spinning at the end. My technical experience with router/modems predates wireless protocols and that was really messing with me. I only have one glitch left. The original network I set up via ethernet has left a gaming PC with a non-working network name and password 'stuck' in the ethernet network adapter. I can't seem to clear it so it updates to the conforming Yosemite happy alpha-numeric new network configuration. It's a PC running WIN 8 and I've yet to solve this issue. Since the wireless works great to the PC there is time to research WIN forums. However, if anyone has tips on this it would be helpful.

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Answer 7

Mar 26, 2015 11:03 PM in response to revm3up

It's a PC running WIN 8 and I've yet to solve this issue. Since the wireless works great to the PC there is time to research WIN forums. However, if anyone has tips on this it would be helpful.

Jump into the control panel and device manager and delete the wireless or ethernet cards that are giving you issues.. sorry I cannot make out which it is.

Once you delete them as a device.. reboot the computer and rediscover.. although it should pop up all by itself.. you can then redo the network configuration.. I have to say I preferred to the old windows network setup.. ie XP than the later .. and especially win8 is annoying.

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