Mainstage 3 problems with Roland A88

Question

Mainstage 3 problems with Roland A88

I recently purchased a Mac mini I7 Quad core with 16 gigs ram and after 10 years from JL Cooper Synapse and ended up with NI Kore 2 64Bit and was able to program two sets (15 songs each) which worked for awhile but since support was discontinued by NI and midi marches on and keeps evolving I ended up with Mainstage 3. I use 3 Masters Fatar VMK 88, Fatar TMK88 and a Roland A88. The A88 is set to upper mode so it is a 88 key controller that defaults to midi channel one. Other than sustain, volume and expression all midi commands are given by MS 3 and the A88 is 1 of 3 obedient slaves. In setting up my new Apple/MS 3 system the A88 was being used elsewhere I substituted a second TMK 88 for the bottom manual. The TMK is a bare bones midi controller with a sustain jack only and receives on Midi channel 1 only. I was able to program 10 songs within MS 3 which switched quickly and all sounds playing properly. As soon a I could I hooked up my favorite controller my A88 AND MS 3 HAS GONE BESERK! When I try to change songs/ presets within a set MS 3 screen changes but no output or sound most of the time? When something does play, controller assignments switch,sometime the sound comes in very slowly and it takes a minute or so for all zones to be loaded? Volumes that are set in one song/preset stick and don't change to the proper value for the next song/patch. I started a new song/preset and loaded in Ivory 2 to the A88 and now it is locked in and no matter what I select the Ivory 2 piano is all the A88 will play! I went in to finded and deleted that song/patch named "piano" and it still plays! I have re-initialized the A88 several times and went into setup and shut off all midi channels to and from the A88 to prevent inadvertent messages from being sent, I don;t know what else to do? I have the Roland EV-5 and Roland Sustain pedal programmed and working in MS3. I also am running a Logidy UMI3 USB (3 foots witches & 1 Expression pedal input) which I have controlling the master volume of MS 3 and the footswitches control my leslie functions and is working well in MS 3. When I unplugged the midi cable to the A88 all of the zones, layers, sounds switched quickly and sounded properly!

In checking the knowledge base, I see that this has been an on going problem with MAINSTAGE since 2009! Not only with Roland products but Casio, Korg M Audio and software products Guitar Rig, Kontakt and Arturia.and more? It would seem that the A88 is the culprit but it worked flawlessly with not one problem with my PC based Kore2 64bit system! Its unfortunate that such a HIGH QUALITY company like Roland that darn near wrote the midi standard has financial problems and I don't know if they have the resources to do much about fixing this. Since you are the successor to Roland (who may not be with us much longer) its up to APPLE to FIX THIS PROBLEM! The reason I invested in an Apple system was the hardware, software and OS all written by the same company and there is nobody to pass the buck to!

MainStage, OS X Mavericks (10.9.5), Mac Mini I7 Quad Core 16gigs ra

Posted on Mar 29, 2015 11:08 AM

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Answer 1

lifenoise

Level 4

1,019 points

Mar 30, 2015 5:27 AM in response to Ron from the 60's

It sounds like you may have a MIDI loop/MIDI feedback going on with the A88. Will you describe specifically how your keyboards are routed to the Mac Mini and MainStage?

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Answer 2

Mar 30, 2015 5:38 AM in response to Ron from the 60's

Hi Ron,

I work for Roland - please contact me and I'll put you in touch with our product guys to see if they can help.

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Answer 3

Apr 1, 2015 9:37 AM in response to lifenoise

Hi Tim,

I am using a Motu Timepiece usb. Each master is hooked to its own port, (1,2,& 3). I think your diagnosis is correct. I have described the scenario to Roland and they are trying to re create it. I am using two EV-5's one connected to FC2 for expression /volume of the A88. The second EV-5 is plugged into a Logidy UMI3 which is a cool 3 foot switch unit which controls my leslie on & off functions and it has a 4th 1/4" input for an expression pedal that I have programmed thru Mainstage 3 as master volume/expression. All are working but perhaps the fact that controller information is being entered via midi and usb there is double information or a loop as you suggested?

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Answer 4

Apr 3, 2015 12:43 AM in response to lifenoise

Hello,

I am using a Motu Midi Timepiece USB with each master hooked to its own port. 1,2,& 3. I am using two EV-5 expression pedals in the system.

One is connected to the FC2 input of the A88 controlling expression/volume of the A88. The second is hooked to a Logidy UMI3 which has 3 foot

switches that controls my leslie on & off functions. There is a 4th 1/4" input allows an expression pedal to be introduced into the equation so Mainstage 3

can program it for a Master volume/expression to everything hosted by Mainstage3. Perhaps the fact that controller information is being entered via

midi and the A88 and from the usb Logidy UMI3 is causing some sort of doubling or loop. I have been in touch with Roland and they are trying to re

create the scenario. Thanks for your diagnosis I believe you are right.

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Answer 5

lifenoise

Level 4

1,019 points

Apr 3, 2015 7:06 AM in response to Ron from the 60's

I haven't had time to study the matter closely, but first, make sure that the A88 doesn't have MIDI thru set to "on". Some keyboards have this option that sends MDI thru data through the MIDI out port, which can cause a MIDI loop. Using a MIDI patch bay can be confusing, so make sure you don't have any other MIDI loops. An easier way is to use USB connections from your keyboards that have USB instead of the MIDI patch bay. That way you will have independent MIDI channel streams. Or you can use MIDI to USB cables.

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Answer 6

Apr 4, 2015 7:57 AM in response to timwalter

Hi Tim,

Days have gone by and haven't heard anything from Roland. I think someone who really knows the A88

will have some answers. If midi thru is turned on ( I looked in the A88 manual and it wasn't mentioned) all the

control information etc> is passed out the midi out? If there is no midi thru how can we isolate all of this extra

controller information? Another question (for Apple_ would be do all of the pedals that get plugged in to the back

of individual controllers and control only that controller need to be configured and mapped in Mainstage 3 when

the pedals should be seen and red from the midi hookup, two inputs? I am using an EV- 5 from the FC2 jack for

expression and it works well, But Mainstage 3 asks for an expression pedal when I am trying to set is a master

volume for the whole system. When I assign the control number for volume it defaults back to expression.

Thanks for replying and for offering your support.

Ron

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Answer 7

Apr 4, 2015 8:05 AM in response to Ron from the 60's

Hi Ron,

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. We are really keen to help you but just need to get in touch with you directly. I can put you directly in touch with the tech support guys in the UK who can look into this for you, after I have briefed them. Can you email me on tim@roland.co.uk with your contact details. Thanks.

Tim

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Answer 8

lifenoise

Level 4

1,019 points

Apr 10, 2015 4:10 AM in response to timwalter

I downloaded the A88 manual. Forget what I said about MIDI feedback loops. The unit only has a MIDI out jack, so it can't be a problem, at least from the A88, or the other two keyboards, for that matter.

If your sustain pedal is a Roland DP-10 or similar pedal that has a TRS connector, move the switch on the side from "continuous" to fixed. Last time I checked, MainStage doesn't like continuous sustain messages. Your problem must be in the way it's routed to and from the MIDI Timepiece. I've found it's much easier to eliminate a MIDI patch bay and connect all controllers to the Mac via USB or USB to MIDI cables(if you use the USB port on the A88, first download the latest driver from Roland).Your three keyboards would have three independent sets of 16 MIDI channels without worrying about which MIDI channels each one needs. If you must use the MIDI patch bay, make sure you have your controllers set to different MIDI channels and routing is correct.

It seems that all three of your keyboards are masters and MS 3 is the slave, not the other way around. All three only transmit MIDI and do not receive any MIDI signals. As for the pedals, they can be assigned wherever you want within your system. Ordinarily, you probably want to assign each sustain and expression pedal to its own keyboard for simplicity. However, if on one patch you need an extra expression pedal for your A88 that's plugged in and assigned to the VMK88, you can override the concert settings for that patch and map the pedal to control, say only channel strip 1 of the patch, while your other pedal connected to the A88 controls the other channel strips, all played from the A88.

To assign an expression pedal to control master volume at concert level, click on the concert folder at the top of the patch list(in edit mode). Select the expression pedal icon in the workspace. Below, in the screen control inspector, select master, and in the right column, select volume. The expression pedal is still sending CC#11/expression commands, but it is now mapped to master volume.

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