AirPort Extreme (Tower) Losing Internet Connection

Question

Level 1

78 points

AirPort Extreme (Tower) Losing Internet Connection

This might be a little long but the issue I am having is driving me insane and I have tried a lot of fixes. Followed some suggestions from other posts on this discussion with no success.

My issue started on Friday (4/10) where my APX loses internet connection for a short period. Watching through the AiPort Utility I can see the internet light go from green to amber and just continue to do switch between Green and amber. I can also see my work VoIP phone go out of service and then back.

I worked with TWC, called them 3 times, and they stated the problem is with my Apple router. I find this hard to believe that all my Apple devices went belly up.

This is what I have done so far and the source.

1. Reset APX - didn't fix issue

2. Reset cable modem - Motorola SB6141 - No change.

3. Unplugged APX and cable modem. Disconnected coax cable and ethernet cable and let sit for 10 minutes. Powered on APX and then connected it to cable modem. Reconnected and powered up cable modem. No change.

4. Disconnected cable modem ran connected directly to Mac Mini via ethernet cable. Connected and powered up cable modem. Seem to work for 5 minutes then pages wouldn't load. (TWC)

5. Pulled my old APX (flat) from storage, configured and connected to cable modem. I did cycle the cable modem to connect to new device, power off and on. Same issue. Connection went from connected to disconnected constantly.

6. Connected cable modem to my work windows pc, cycled cable modem to pc and it worked steadily. Pages loaded and no issues. (TWC)

7. Reconnected APX and then it was stable for about 10 minutes. Using a PoE switch I have I connect the cable modem to the switch and the APX to the switch. It seemed stable for a couple of minutes then same thing. I reconnected the APX to the cable modem and it seemed to work. I read about that on a post in this discussion. I also read something about changing the WAN port speed and figured that is what the switch was able to do. It was sable for about an hour then back to green and amber. (Discussion port)

8. Factory reset on APX. Disconnected all hard wired devices then did a factory reset and reconfigured my network. I did not reconnected any of the hard wired devices and the connection stayed stable for hours. I then only connected my VoIP device and the connection was stable.

This morning I am back to square 1 with my internet constantly disconnecting. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get my internet working again?

Just a note while monitoring the APX on my iPhone with the AirPort utility I can see the light go amber but the light on the APX is still green.

I could pull my hair out if I had any left and I don't really want to go and by a new router only for it to still not work.

Thanks in advance.

Mac mini, Mac OS X (10.7.2)

Posted on Apr 16, 2015 8:20 AM

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Answer 1

Apr 16, 2015 3:53 PM in response to Vito A.

2. Reset cable modem - Motorola SB6141 - No change.

This is a problematic modem for the Airport AC routers.

Sorry but to fix this might be impossible without replacement either of the modem or the AE.

Some suggestions that have worked for some.

Replace the current ethernet cord that plugs modem to AE with a crossover cable.. you can still buy these in some computer stores or online for a few dollars.

Or use a small 10/100 switch between the modem and AE.. your POE switch .. if gigabit may not work..

Otherwise it time for a new.. router.

5. Pulled my old APX (flat) from storage, configured and connected to cable modem. I did cycle the cable modem to connect to new device, power off and on. Same issue. Connection went from connected to disconnected constantly.

This problem also affects the older extreme.. if you run it on earlier firmware it might work better.. on older firmware and using a v5 airport utility it is possible to actually set wan port speed and this does seem to fix it.

Downgrade firmware.. hold the option key while you click version in the summary screen of v6 utility.

7.6.1 is best.. but if it is very old unit.. and 7.5.2 shows up use that.

This is not a solution for the AC models.. you cannot go back from 7.7.3 firmware.. nor can you set wan speeds.. apple has no longer allowed that functionality.

Replacing the modem is what some people have done.

Sorry I am not in the US to tell you brands that work better.. but there is plenty of posts about your model.. just do a search here for sb6141 .. it has a reputation. Bob Timmons who might drop in found the ubee modem (zoom??) a lot more stable with the airport. I would need to get his confirmation.

A cheap router like wndr3800, running a great 3rd party firmware like gargoyle will also be an excellent solution. you can then use the airport as bridged device for wireless and switch. You can pick these up on ebay for $40 say.. but newer ones like TP-Link etc are only a few dollars more new.. and work well with 3rd party. (even native firmware is OK.. if you are not in flashing mood).

If the Gen6 AE is still in warranty you can get Apple to replace it.. and sometimes a new one will be ok.. and sometimes it is just the same.. it is really a buggy firmware/hardware combo.

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Answer 2

Tesserax

Level 10

148,453 points

Apr 16, 2015 4:45 PM in response to Vito A.

Unfortunately there are numerous posts here related to incompatibility issues between the Motorola SB6141 modem and Apple routers. Both are very good products that, for unknown reasons, just don't play nice together. Your only real option is to replace one or the other ... sorry!

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Answer 3

Vito A. Author

Level 1

78 points

Apr 17, 2015 4:34 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks for your response to my problem. The funny thing is that I have had the SB6141 since December of 2012 and the APX since Nov of 2013 and never had any issues. It's strange that it just started last Friday right after the latest Yosemite upgrade and I think that an OS upgrade could have any affect on a APX. I will go the cheapest route and try the cross over cable I might have one in my box of cables, I never throw out old cables just put them in the box.

If that doesn't work I will most likely try a new modem but will have to check TWC for supported modems.

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Answer 4

Vito A. Author

Level 1

78 points

Apr 17, 2015 10:51 AM in response to Vito A.

I tried both an ethernet switch and a crossover cable with no luck. I currently have the SB6141 connected directly to my Mac Mini and the connection is slow and non-responsive which leads me to believe that it does have something to do with the latest Yosemite upgrade. I upgraded on Thursday (4/9) and I started to notice problems on Friday (4/10). If it was an issue between the modem and APX I should have no issue connect directly to my Mac. When I connect the SB6141 directly to my work windows laptop there is no issue. I would think if there was a problem with the modem that it will affect the windows laptop also which it doesn't. I really don't want to go and spend money on either a router or modem just to continue to have the problem. The only other option I have without spending money is to have TWC activate the Ubee modem that I have for my TWC phone service. It is a modem with the phone ports and is currently deactivated for internet service. They will start charging me rent but it is cheaper than getting a new modem only to find out it is not the modem.

Will post updates.

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Answer 5

Vito A. Author

Level 1

78 points

Apr 17, 2015 1:33 PM in response to Vito A.

Update 4/17/15 16:25 - Went to TWC and asked for a new cable modem. Instead of taking a chance and buying a new modem or router I would try and borrow a modem from TWC. This way if it works I can be 90% sure my modem is causing the problem. They cave me a Motorola SurfBoard SB6580 with the wireless turned off. I connected the new modem and had to change the APX to bridge mode but it seems to be working. It's still too early to tell so I will monitor overnight. I personally don't like bridge mode as I feel I am not in control. Can't figure out the username/password to the modem to look at the modem settings.

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Answer 6

Apr 17, 2015 2:50 PM in response to Vito A.

Can't figure out the username/password to the modem to look at the modem settings.

Thanks for the feedback.. ISP like to keep end users out of their gateways now.. the idea is to lock them up to make it fully controlled by ISP and leave you out of the loop..

It is possible to use the airport in static IP mode instead of bridge.. this does add a bit more control over the network without causing double NAT.

However it is better if you do have access to the gateway to set the DHCP range from covering the same IP as the Airport.

This is the write up of the static IP setup.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5981989?answerId=25135547022#25135547022&ac_cid=tw123456#

That is how I run my TC and it works very well in my network. Strange stuff happens with Yosemite.. it is truly awful OS. At least on the network side.

See this hack to fix some of the problems.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/01/why-dns-in-os-x-10-10-is-broken-and-what-yo u-can-do-to-fix-it/

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Answer 7

Vito A. Author

Level 1

78 points

Apr 17, 2015 6:41 PM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks LaPastenague for your feedback and insight. I was able to figure the password to the SB6580 and was able to access the modem. Felt like I was back in the 80's with that interface. I still don't feel comfortable with having a router before my main router and am going to purchase a modem only device but the question is which one to get. I read some nightmare reviews on the Netgear CMD31T on Amazon. It boggles my mind on how we make purchases these days by reading reviews online. Before the internet we just found something we liked and bought it.

The other thing I noticed now with the new modem is that the AirPort Utility will stop seeing the APX. When it does I have to restart my Mac to be able to see it again. That is a big problem as I don't want to be restarting every time it loses sight of the APX. The other thing is when I am able to see the APX in the utility that when I click on the APX to see the devices I no longer see the device name but only the IP address or the mac address. The device names I see are for my 2 Apple Tv's and my Mac. That is another big problem not being able to see connected device names. I am thinking it is my setup as bridge mode that is causing this since it wasn't like this in DHCP NAT mode.

It's a little frustrating to me that something that has worked for over a year just stops working and I have to be in the confused market of purchasing a new modem.

Sorry for the long post and thanks again!!!

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Answer 8

Apr 21, 2015 5:19 AM in response to Vito A.

The continual lost contact with the AE is pure Yosemite.. there are many threads here with the same complaint.. it is the new rotten DNS setup of Yosemite.. it could not find its own IP if it tried let alone anything else on the network 5min after a reboot.

Here is my usual set of helping Yosemite work. It is not exhaustive.

The best way to test is full factory reset.

Factory reset universal

Power off the AE.. ie pull the power cord or power off at the wall.. wait 10sec.. hold in the reset button.. be gentle.. power on again still holding in reset.. and keep holding it in for another 10sec. You may need some help as it is hard to both hold in reset and apply power. It will show success by rapidly blinking the front led. Release the reset.. and wait a couple of min for the AE to reset and come back with factory settings. If the front LED doesn’t blink rapidly you missed it and simply try again. The reset is fairly fragile in these.. press it so you feel it just click and no more.. I have seen people bend the lever or even break it. I use a toothpick as tool.

Then redo the setup from the computer with Yosemite.

1. Use very short names.. NOT APPLE RECOMMENDED names. No spaces and pure alphanumerics.

eg AEgen5 and AEwifi for basestation and wireless respectively.

Even better if the issue is more wireless use AE24ghz and AE5ghz with fixed channels as this also seems to help stop the nonsense.

2. Use all passwords that also comply but can be a bit longer. ie 8-20 characters mixed case and numbers.. no non-alphanumerics.

3. Ensure the AE always takes the same IP address.. this is a problem with bridge setup and why using router helps. But you can do it via the static IP method I recommended.. and by using dhcp reservations on the main router.

4. Check your share name on the computer is not changing.. make sure it also complies with the above.. short no spaces and pure alphanumeric..

5. Make sure IPv6 is set to link-local only in the computer. For example wireless open the network preferences, wireless and advanced / TCP/IP.. and fix the IPv6. to link-local only. This should have been fixed but it is still an issue.

There is a lot more jiggery pokery you can try but the above is a good start.. if you find it still unreliable.. don't be surprised.

Not everything you are having issues with is unusual.. eg.

The other thing is when I am able to see the APX in the utility that when I click on the APX to see the devices I no longer see the device name but only the IP address or the mac address. The device names I see are for my 2 Apple Tv's and my Mac. That is another big problem not being able to see connected device names. I am thinking it is my setup as bridge mode that is causing this since it wasn't like this in DHCP NAT mode.

This has been the standard since Lion and v6 airport utility.. there is absolutely no way to ensure how the utility will report clients.. the same list can include name, IP or Mac address.. I have 3 or 4 Airports in the network.. today they are all reporting wireless clients by MAC address.. tomorrow they can change.. it is a mystery what will happen..

The old v5 utility on the other hand behaved properly..

Herein lies the advantage of some older OS in your network.. Here is the current dhcp list from my main Time Capsule running static IP.. it is still not the main router in the network but it works just about as well. I have complete readouts of all the info.

As well as hugely superior wireless info.

Not every advance apple makes in the OS is for the better.. some are plainly to look pretty.. to look ipadish.. I am to be honest very tired of a computer interface that is ipadish.

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Answer 9

Vito A. Author

Level 1

78 points

Apr 18, 2015 1:12 PM in response to LaPastenague

This morning when I woke up the Mac Mini and there was an error message stating that the IP assigned to my Mac was also assigned to another device. Never had that happen before and I guess I can blame it on the cable modem/router. So what I did was to take an old AE (flat) and downgrade to firmware to 7.6.1 after which I set up the wireless network with a really short name. I then had TWC cable reactivate my SB6141 and low and behold my problem is back. At this point I will have to go with the problem being the modem. The only thing I haven't tried is a non-Apple router. Will have to go digging in the archive of technology to see if I still have a LinkSys router. If not I will just buy one, test and return.

But then again I could be completely wrong and it was the Yosemite upgrade some how.

I also agree with you about AirPort Utility the old version was so much better and you got so much more information. Wht should have done was just add the Network view with the globe and routers connected by white lines. Then have a device view which would have preserved avery other aspect of the old APU.

Does Apple read these boards?

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Answer 10

Apr 21, 2015 5:19 AM in response to Vito A.

This morning when I woke up the Mac Mini and there was an error message stating that the IP assigned to my Mac was also assigned to another device. Never had that happen before and I guess I can blame it on the cable modem/router.

Straight pure Yosemite ghosting.

Does Apple read these boards?

Maybe.. but other than delete a few trolls and really bad comments.. nothing is edited.

There are some things I have got deleted for which are against a policy.. eg how to run v5 utility in Yosemite.. but if I tell you to google for it.. nobody cares.. I just cannot give you the URL to the article.. or a non apple router that will fix your problem.. I can suggest you buy a WNDR3800 from ebay for $40-50 and flash it over to gargoyle.. and then you can bridge your airport and most of the problems will go away.. but if I post the URL to gargoyle I will have the post deleted.. go figure!! 👿

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Answer 11

Vito A. Author

Level 1

78 points

Apr 19, 2015 4:42 AM in response to LaPastenague

Update: Purchased a LinkSys E1200 at BestBuy, $40.00 exactly. Got home set it up and it worked, well for about an hour then it started to lose connection. So at this point I would have to point to the cable modem. My next step is to get TWC out here to confirm the issue is with the cable modem. My thinking is that TWC might have pushed out a firmware update to the modem, the only way to know for sure will be to call TWC and ask for a level 3 tech.

The setup of the LinkSys was easy but I could not find any where in the interface to change the wireless channel. It defaults to channel one which all my nieghbors are using so it is a crowed channel.

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Answer 12

Vito A. Author

Level 1

78 points

Apr 21, 2015 5:18 AM in response to Vito A.

Update 4/21/15: As mysteriously as my problem started it was just as mysteriously how it was resolved. After hooking up the LinkSys on Saturday to find it did not resolve the issue so I called TWC on Sunday to setup an appointment the earliest they can get here was Tuesday. On Monday when I cam down to work I saw that my connection was working and it work all day without a dropped connection. Then on Monday night I get a call from TWC asking if I still had the problem, strange that they would call. The tech said he will test the line and send a couple of signals to test and all looked good so he cancelled the appointment. After that call I connected my AE back on my network and connected it to the modem. As of this morning all seems fine, checked my VPN connection on my work laptop and it was still connected.

It seems the problem was not with my equipment but with TWC even though they won't admit it was them.

So my conclusion is that if you know it was not your equipment and you did every possible test you need to push the issue with your provider. I also asked about a firmware update but as usual he just stuck to the script.

A special thank you to LaPastenague for taking time to help.

Issue solved: It was TWC.

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Answer 13

iFoe

Level 1

8 points

Jun 19, 2016 5:41 PM in response to Vito A.

Oddball fix working so far for similar problem:
1) Unplugged modem for over a minute & plugged back in & waited for reboot.
2) In AirPort Utility, clicked "Edit" button within the menu that appears after clicking the AirPort Graphic.
3) Under Internet, added Google's DNS server as an alternate: 8.8.8.8 and clicked "Update."
4) Received an error message that AirPort could no longer be recognized and clicked the only option available within that error message: "Forget Device."
5) The AirPort graphic disappeared from within the AirPort Utility and magically reappeared a few minutes later -- with WORKING internet. Same name.

Order of Events leading to outage:
After Internet went down, TWC tried resetting modem remotely and our call disconnected abruptly in middle of reset. Called back and tried reset again to no avail. Tech was sent out who determined it was a bad cable from AirPort to iMac. Replaced all cables but internet would now only work if plugged directly from modem to iMac. When Modem was plugged into iMac via AirPort, in Airport Utility, AirPort dot was green but Internet dot was orange. Although the iMac recognized the AirPort & lights were green, the Internet connection was, "Disconnected." The modem was supplying signal to the AirPort -- but the AirPort could not communicate signal to iMac.

--

OS X El Capitan v10.11.5
AirPort Time Capsule
Time Warner Cable
Motorola Arris SB6141 SURFboard (from Best Buy)
iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011)

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