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GH4 and h.264 MOV and FCP 7

I'm just now figuring out how to edit 1080 HD h.264 MOV files from my Panasonic GH4. I have no trouble importing them, but as soon as I put these clips into the Timeline they need rendering. After rendered all is fine. I've read on-line that FCP 7 doesn't like h.264 and that one should convert these files to ProRes. I've tried that and that works fine too.


But what I'm wondering is: what is FCP 7 doing when I import the h.264 files and it has me render them? Is this rendering converting them to ProRes ( maybe shows how little I know about rendering)? If so, is it just as easy, if not easier, to go this route, rendering only the portion of each clip I use, rather than converting all whole file to ProRes before I begin?


Thanks


John

Final Cut Pro 7

Posted on Apr 16, 2015 4:38 PM

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Question marked as Best reply

Posted on Apr 17, 2015 7:20 AM

When you render a clip in the timeline, it gets converted to the settings of the Sequence. Click anywhere in your sequence, then type Command - 0 {zero} to see your Sequence settings.


You normally want to be editing in a sequence set to the same frame size as your source and in the same codec as your source AS LONG AS that codec is an FCP-7 edit friendly codec, which H.264 is not. In that case, you want to convert your source material to, and set your timeline to edit in an edit friendly codec such as ProRes.


Note - if your are editing in an h.264 timeline, you will still have to render because h.264 is a GOP codec - frames are grouped together in packages. When you place an edit within of of those packages (or Groups Of Pictures), FCP has to figure out the regrouping to make sure all the packages conform to the same frame count groupings.


ProRes,on the other hand, keeps every frame separate - which is why it is so much easier for FCP to edit in ProRes than h.264 - but because every frame is stored individually, as opposed to frames packed within a group, files sizes for ProRes are much larger.

Canada John wrote:


If so, is it just as easy, if not easier, to go this route, rendering only the portion of each clip I use, rather than converting all whole file to ProRes before I begin?



The problem is the the h.264 files will sometimes (frequently/unpredictably) generate flawed render files - because they are not supported in FCP-7.


This is why want to convert your source material to an FCP-7 edit friendly codec prior to ingestion. This prevents unpleasant surprised during the rendering or exporting of the sequence.


Your other choice is to change your editing software to an editor that supports working with h.264 directly, without conversion such as FCP-X or Premiere Pro.


MtD

4 replies
Question marked as Best reply

Apr 17, 2015 7:20 AM in response to Canada John

When you render a clip in the timeline, it gets converted to the settings of the Sequence. Click anywhere in your sequence, then type Command - 0 {zero} to see your Sequence settings.


You normally want to be editing in a sequence set to the same frame size as your source and in the same codec as your source AS LONG AS that codec is an FCP-7 edit friendly codec, which H.264 is not. In that case, you want to convert your source material to, and set your timeline to edit in an edit friendly codec such as ProRes.


Note - if your are editing in an h.264 timeline, you will still have to render because h.264 is a GOP codec - frames are grouped together in packages. When you place an edit within of of those packages (or Groups Of Pictures), FCP has to figure out the regrouping to make sure all the packages conform to the same frame count groupings.


ProRes,on the other hand, keeps every frame separate - which is why it is so much easier for FCP to edit in ProRes than h.264 - but because every frame is stored individually, as opposed to frames packed within a group, files sizes for ProRes are much larger.

Canada John wrote:


If so, is it just as easy, if not easier, to go this route, rendering only the portion of each clip I use, rather than converting all whole file to ProRes before I begin?



The problem is the the h.264 files will sometimes (frequently/unpredictably) generate flawed render files - because they are not supported in FCP-7.


This is why want to convert your source material to an FCP-7 edit friendly codec prior to ingestion. This prevents unpleasant surprised during the rendering or exporting of the sequence.


Your other choice is to change your editing software to an editor that supports working with h.264 directly, without conversion such as FCP-X or Premiere Pro.


MtD

Apr 16, 2015 9:08 PM in response to Meg The Dog

Thanks very much for your reply and all the valuable information you've given me.

You say that I was seeing the render bar because my H.264 MOV files were not in sync with the sequence settings. That makes good sense.

I had a look at how they are set and see that QuickTime Video Settings/Compressor is set at Apple ProRes 422. (Frame Size was set correctly at 1920 X 1080 and Editing Timebase correctly at 24.)

So, if I understand you correctly, when I rendered was I converting the H.264 file to ProRes 422?

If so, is this actually a reasonable place and means to convert, versus using Compessor or Log and Transfer (where I admit I couldn't figure out how to convert H.264 to ProRes)

I have another question.

The Panasonic GH4 offers two H.264 MOV HD 1080p settings. One is 100 bit and (IPB) GOP. The other is 200 bit and ALL-I. In both cases I was required to render. I suppose in the ALL-I case it was that though a full-frame capture it was not ProRes.

I'm wondering too about another thing.

When I look at the Sequence Settings, besides the information I list above the Aspect Ratio says HDTV 1080i (16:9). There are options for HD (960X72) (16:9), HD (1280X1080) (16:9), HD (1440X1080) (16:9), but no option to choose something like HD 1080p. What does this all mean?

If rendering is conforming my clip to the Sequence Settings could it possibly also be converting my 1080p to 1080i?

Apr 17, 2015 7:19 AM in response to Canada John

Canada John wrote:

So, if I understand you correctly, when I rendered was I converting the H.264 file to ProRes 422?

Yes.

If so, is this actually a reasonable place and means to convert, versus using Compessor or Log and Transfer (where I admit I couldn't figure out how to convert H.264 to ProRes)

While it will do it, it certainly not a best practice procedure. You need to check each render very carefully and very the entire file when you export that the video and audio from your source files is being correctly rendered - this is mainly a sync issue, more than a quality one. It really is much better to just convert the material prior to editing.


You can look at an application like EditReady, which will bulk convert your source material to ProRes:


http://www.divergentmedia.com/editready


They have a trial download that will convert the first 60 seconds of files so you can verify the workflow.



The Panasonic GH4 offers two H.264 MOV HD 1080p settings. One is 100 bit and (IPB) GOP. The other is 200 bit and ALL-I. In both cases I was required to render. I suppose in the ALL-I case it was that though a full-frame capture it was not ProRes.

Yes, that's right. The codec did not match. Keep in mind your camera is shooting in a format optimized for acquisition with the highest quality in the smallest possible file size, and that, while great for recording, is not great for editing. That is why Apple went with ProRes. More modern editors like Final Cut Pro X and Premiere Pro rely on the the newer hardware horsepower available now to basically do this conversion in real time on the fly - so you don't need to pre-convert your files.



When I look at the Sequence Settings, besides the information I list above the Aspect Ratio says HDTV 1080i (16:9). There are options for HD (960X72) (16:9), HD (1280X1080) (16:9), HD (1440X1080) (16:9), but no option to choose something like HD 1080p.

The setting for HD 1080i is the one you want. It is appropriate for work in 1080P as well, it is not listed that way because FCP-7 was abandoned by Apple before that was added to the listing - but it is the setting to use.



If rendering is conforming my clip to the Sequence Settings could it possibly also be converting my 1080p to 1080i?

Your sequence is progressive as long as Field Dominace is set to None. If it set to Upper or Lower, then it is interlaced. I you have an editing timebase of either 24 (for film output or the web) or 23.98 (for output to video) the Field Dominance option should be grayed out as there is no interlaced standard for that framerate.


MtD

GH4 and h.264 MOV and FCP 7

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