Q: Bluetooth Interference - Apple Watch and iPhone 6

You wrote: "YOUR argument is there is a bug inApple's BT implementation on the iPhone 6. But if that were true it would affect EVERY iPhone 6."  Again, just because there is a bug in the hardware, software or firmware does not mean every iPhone 6 user would see it manifest.  To the contrary, many iPhone users don't pair their phones to their cars or other devices at all so they would not see it manifest ever.  It would manifest for those iPhone 6 users who had their phones paired to hardware/software class of BT devices which required the lines of flawed code (say, for example, all iPhone 6 users who paired their phones with BT ver 2.0 devices) -- which explains the many pages of articles and forums I pasted at the end of my last post.  Just because you happened to be paired with one version of BMW BT hardware/software which doesn't yield an error (for example your X3 could be using a more recent/updated or much older version of BT hardware and software than mine), this doesn't mean iOS BT code is bug free, it means the iOS code lines your setup is using aren't causing errors.  Your setup may be using BT 3.0 entirely.  Mine could be using a mix of BT 1.0, 4.0 and 3.0... There are many variables.

I would normally be inclined to say that it's the many other manufacturers code which is at fault, except well if many other BT device manufacturers products (cars, mice, keyboards, etc) are all having problems with Apple iPhones (I never limited it to iPhone 6s, as there are reports of iPhone 5s having the same issue) running iOS 8.x, then logic says there is an apparent common denominator in the equation (Apple).  You may be correct that it's all coincidence, but it bears investigating by Apple.  Nevertheless, just because yours is working fine does not mean there isn't a problem in Apple's code or hardware somewhere which manifests for many others.  That dog just doesn't hunt.

Okay since you didn't read his reply, I'll just quote him: "If it works in one model BMW and not in another that would place the problem with BMW, not with Apple."  Enough said.

She did read my reply and probably had no issue with it. If I use my iPhone and Watch with my X3 and it works then I try it with your X5 and it fails that would show the problem being your car not the iPhone. BT is backward compatible and will work with BT 2.0 (which was buggy in itself) and 2.1. But if the car manufacturer did not correctly implement BT then the newest iPhone would have trouble with it. Apple could write code in that case to work around the flawed BT implementation in that vehicle and every other vehicle but pretty soon you would be looking at some really bloated and ugly code.

If you read some of your own threads you posted they are repeats of another article that was a repeat of another article, etc. Quite often with these reports they trace back to one article that is then referenced by 30 other sites. Such is the nature of the internet. Your article regarding GPS devices only impacted certain models and there is an extensive thread here regarding that. It really had to do with a security block (the devices couldn't pass on location information and it was fixed in iOS 8.4 after Apple worked with users and the distributors. It was also an epic fail by the people who sell those devices.

This may be new to you but to Meg and myself we have seen this many, many times. For Apple to research these issues (and they are) they need information from users. They do not maintain a fleet of every vehicle out there with every version of their Handsfree equipment. Yes, it is not working on some cars but there can be thousands of reasons why. But for the most part it IS working on most cars. Apple has to be careful not to rush things and fix some cars but then turn around and break others.

Also, I left out the fact that I have also paired with a BMW 328 and 650 (charity drive for the Olympics). It worked. If your X5 was near I could try mine with your car. If it didn't work where would you surmise the issue is?

Are you saying your BMW system uses BT 1, 3 and 4 at the same time?

Don'y cherry pick evidence. In total the numerous links demonstrate a long standing myriad of BT connectivity in iOS 8.x with many kinds of devices, not just BMW cars.  For example, this article (http://www.autoconnectedcar.com/2015/03/why-ios-8-2-doesnt-fix-all-bluetooth-iss ues-for-car-owners-more-carplay-coming/) mentions that iOS has had a well-known, long-standing BT problem and goes onto say "We have comments from readers that there are still [iOS] Bluetooth problems reported with BMW, Audi, Acura, MINI, GM(Chevy, GMC, Cadillac, Buick), Honda, Kia, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, Mazda, Lexus, Fiat, Hyundai, Chrysler, Acura, Mazda and more."

So again, just because your BMW X3 works fine with your iPhone 6 and Apple Watch, doesn't mean that Apple didn't write a bug into the thousands of lines of code in their bluetooth application of the iPhone and Apple Watch.  If iPhone users are having BT problems with "BMW, Audi, Acura, MINI, GM(Chevy, GMC, Cadillac, Buick), Honda, Kia, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, Mazda, Lexus, Fiat, Hyundai, Chrysler, Acura, Mazda and more" --  Apple should get spend more time talking to users who report problems and less time trolling them.

And as for reporting to Apple, of course I reported it to them via their web reporting form.  And maybe they'll follow up on it (but as a current Apple beta tester, my experience says they won't).  But from your incessant attempts to dismiss my (and others' reporting here in the forums which we all know Apple reads) it would appear Apple is paying you to troll the forums in a pathetic attempt to dismiss user reports.  The problem is that you're attempting to place blame anywhere but on Apple, without any evidence upon which to make such claims.  Therefore they are not persuasive.

As for you pairing your phone with my car, that's pretty laughable.  But what would be great is if someone from Apple (not you, but a real no kidding iOS engineer) called me, and/or others who've tried to report these issues in the forums (before peeps like you earned a paycheck trying to dismiss our reports as baseless) to replicate/fix the issue.  But it's pretty obvious that Apple has instead decided to "deny, deny, deny" these BT issues and try to shift blame on auto (and apparently other hardware device) manufacturers.  It's a pretty common tactic by corporations more interested in boosting the next quarter's profit margin than on providing the best quality products to their customers.  It's also what cost Microsoft its limitless profitability and dominant position in PC operating systems.

So let's stop with your personal car anecdotes and focus instead on the countless examples of other people having issues with IOS BT connectivity with MANY kinds of  BT devices (cars, mice, keyboards, etc).  Bottom line:  Apple devices are not playing well with a myriad of them (unless you think everyone is just lying), and if it were just one or two devices, well that wouldn't indicate a problem at Apple's end, but problems with over 20 auto manufacturers (and numerous other device manufacturers) it's safe to say the APPLE IS THE COMMON DENOMINATOR.  This doesn't mean Apple products are not great, I own so many different kinds of Apple products because they are great.  But just because Apple does a great job on their products does not mean they didn't make a mistake in their BT code, any more than the fact that your iPhone works great with your BMW or two other BMWs means that Apple didn't make a mistake in their BT code.  Anecdotal evidence is simply not persuasive.  Empirical evidence is, and while we are far from having an air tight empirical case that Apple made an error in their coding, the sheer number of complaints with Apple as the common denominator makes it worth Apple's time to investigate.

seminolefans wrote:

 

Okay since you didn't read his reply, I'll just quote him: "If it works in one model BMW and not in another that would place the problem with BMW, not with Apple." 

Yes, you have quoted correctly. And, no, it still doesn't mean "my car doesn't have the problem, so therefore no other car from the same manufacturer can have the problem either".

I'm inclined to read deggie's posts rather closely as I generally learn something.

You don't have a lot of technical background do you?

You didn't answer my question about your combination of 1.0, 3.0, 4.0

But I'm just overwhelmed with the fact that you were a public beta tester. I am quite aware of the fact that there are articles about iPhone BT and a variety of cars. I'm also aware there is a wide range of implementation of BT in a variety of cars. I'm also aware people have problems. I went through an echo problem in my former car and iOS 3 and 4. It was finally fixed in iOS 5 and by doing an firmware update on my car.

Now do a search for Samsung and BT in cars. Then HTC and BT in cars. Keep going with searches on WiFi and various different types of equipment. Go back as far as you want. Search for interference. Connection problems. You will find them all.

Also remember that most of Apple's code is just calls to the BT chipset they use. And while you're at it do a search for Uconnect and BT. It has lots of problems going back a long way. Of course now it also has hacking problems.

Glad you contacted Apple and gave them your information. I'm sure you are not the only one who has done do and engineers may be putting a profile on someone else's iPhone.

And what makes you think Apple isn't investigating?

seminolefans wrote:

 

APPLE IS THE COMMON DENOMINATOR. 

BlueTooth itself is also a "common denominator".

Please don't shout.

You can definitely learn something from it -- it's just wrong.  Let's break it down:  "If it works in one model BMW and not in another that would place the problem with BMW, not with Apple".  So if an iPhone 6 Bluetooth pairs with a 2015 BMW X3 with Bluetooth version 4.0 using a mix of CDT (from Taiwan) and TRC (from Japan) BT 4.0 chips, using firmware version 33.9 coded by XYZ corp in the Netherlands, but doesn't correctly pair with a 2008 BMW M3 using Bluetooth version 2.0 using all chips from UYT (from Germany) and version 3.11 of BT firmware coded by UYT engineers in Great Britain, it therefore follows that the problem is with BMW?  Uh no. It does zero to prove that Apple's IOS or chipset firmware code for addressing BT 4.0 systems is 100% correct or that the iOS of firmware code for addressing BT 2.0 systems is 100% correct.  The causes could be many!  The iPhone could have been dropped and the BT chip is now malfunctioning.  The BT chip on the iPhone could be poorly connected to the BT antenna in the iPhone during manufacturing in China.  The lines of code for addressing BT 4.0 devices may be perfect while a singe variable in the lines of code addressing BT 2.0 devices could be bad.  The iPhone motherboard could be slightly cracked and creating intermittent interference with the BT 2.0 signal.  The possibilities are endless.  What is NOT certain is that "If it works in one model BMW and not in another that would place the problem with BMW, not with Apple."  This is just ludicrous.

I didn't answer your question because I chose not to because I never asked you to diagnose my issues, and I am now certain you are not qualified to do so.  What I did do was rebuff your attempts to shift blame onto third party manufacturers and away from Apple.

So what makes you an authority on Apple code or hardware?  Why should anyone place any stock in your unpersuasive opinions unsupported by evidence?  Are you an Apple employee or contractor?  Do you procure hardware for Apple?  What makes your opinion on Apple code or hardware anything but another opinion?  Is Apple compensating you to make these claims?

As for Samsung phones?  I have no idea.  I don't and have never owned a phone made by Samsung.  So why drag Samsung into this?  Are you trying to shift blame now on Samsung?  Your new argument is "well Samsung has BT problems too?"  Seriously?

seminolefans wrote:

 

The causes could be many!  `

I think deggie and I both agree on that. All the causes you postulate that could mean the problem is with the iPhone could just as easily apply to the car. Assuming that the fault is always Apple's is ludicrous.

You are starting to steal my line now about many variables.

In the example you use about connecting, losing connection, etc. with an older 2.0 device that would not involve Apple coding. All backwards compatibility for connecting with older devices is contained in the firmware on the chipset, Apple's engineers do not write thousands of lines of code for connecting with legacy systems. If there was a "bug" in the chipset that would not connect with the BT 2.0 used in the Honda Fit the only way to correct it would be to replace the chipset in all the iPhones. But that is an unlikely event. As new standards are released the code for older, final versions of Bluetooth, like 2.1, are pretty much locked in and carry from chipset to newer chipset. But if you have a car that used a new stereo system with 2.1 there is a much, much higher likelihood that errors in implementing the BT standard would be in the 2008 older vehicle. Hopefully there would be a way to update the firmware. In my Chrysler model cars there was no way to do that and they have trouble with newer phones from any manufacturer.

Again if you want to take the time you can find BT issues with all the other manufacturers of phones. Just too many variables. I would guess the least number of problems you would find would be with smartphones running Windows 8.

I'm not assuming the fault is always Apple's!  I am saying that there are countless reports of people having BT connectivity problems with Apple iPhones and over 20 manufacturers of autos (and numerous other computer peripherals) -- therefore strongly suggesting that the problem may be at Apple's end.  If it's not, Apple should be able to rule it out.  But they have to be willing to consider the complaints of users -- which does not mean trolling complainers and shifting blame to third party manufacturers.

No, you didn't answer because by now you have determined that there is not device that would be running a mixture of 1.0, 3.0 and 4.0, it makes no sense.

What 20 manufacturers?

You can't get it through your head that this doesn't mean that the iPhone doesn't work with all the cars with those manufacturers or even the majority. It means that the authors have seen complaints (usually from here) that people have posted such issues and say they have these cars. But they don't specify the year, the model, which electronics are being used, etc. In some threads here where people complained it didn't work later someone comes along and solves their issue. Other times they go to their dealer and solve their problem, Sometimes they go to Apple and solve their problem.

But by your logic Samsung also has a major problem with BT, HTC has a major problem with BT, LG has a major problem with BT, etc. As Meg already said the only common denominator is Bluetooth.

I seriously doubt I will live long enough to ever see the release of a new smartphone with an new OS that doesn't have issues pairing with BT in cars.