Q: Apple watch gives pain on the wrist?

jdestremps wrote:

 

If you'd bother to look at the wikipaedia page you'll see that by the magic of these things called hyperlinks they actually link to the double blind studies I'm referring to.  Odd that even when I support your view that you site all sorts of whackos in your reply.  Just remember, "you're right."   That's all your precious little ego needs to know.

Well, I DID bother to look at the page. Here is a quote from it (emphasis added):

The majority of provocation trials to date have found that self-described sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to distinguish between exposure to real and fake electromagnetic fields,^[3][4] and it is not recognized as a medical condition by the medical or scientific communities. Since a systematic review in 2005 showing no convincing scientific evidence for it being caused by electromagnetic fields,^[3] several double-blind experiments have been published, each of which has suggested that people who report electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to detect the presence of electromagnetic fields and are as likely to report ill health following a sham exposure as they are following exposure to genuine electromagnetic fields, suggesting the cause to be the nocebo effect.^[5][6][7]

I should add that I read several scientific journals on a regular basis, and as an engineer with over 40 years of experience working with non-ionizing emissions across the spectrum from VLF (Very Low Frequencies - under 500 Khz) to UHF and Microwave (my work went as high as 26 GHz) I have not seen a single study that supports electromagnetic hypersensitivity, and many that have demonstrated its non-existence, supporting the quote above.

Also note that although the maximum transmission power is the same for both, in practice it is very different. All 802.11 WiFi transmitters radiate their maximum power of 100mw all the time. Bluetooth devices are almost exclusively less than 2.5mw, hence the short range.

And it would be deadly to get on an airplane, as they have RF emissions that cover the entire spectrum from low frequency to VHF through RADAR frequencies. And at very high intensity also. And never go to a restaurant that has microwave ovens -- OOPS, that means never going to any restaurant, because they all do.

deggie wrote:

 

That really would make no difference whatsoever if the non-ionizing radiation from either system was emitting something that would make you sick, that has to do with the two signals not interfering with each other.

He was just pointing out there was a difference in transmission between wifi and bluetooth, could "Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum" be the cause of my sickness?  Maybe? Maybe not?  Nonetheless, there is a difference.  Otherwise we wouldn't have two different standards in wireless communications such as Bluetooth and WIFI.

deggie wrote:

 

 

Going back to Bluetooth, I take it when you are out among people this sickness is pretty much omnipresent?

nope, I only notice it when the device is usually 1-2 feet away from me and transferring high amount of data such as my music from my phone to my watch caused dizziness and headaches.  Could it be the transmission power?  I dunno but I doubt it since it uses less power compared to wifi and wifi have no affect on me.  I can only speak from experience.

You missed the part where it was pointed out that WiFi transmits continuously, whether data are being transferred or not. So if it is only when data are being transmitted it clearly isn't WiFi that is causing the problem, because WiFi power is the same whether data are moving or not.

Lawrence Finch wrote:

 

You missed the part where it was pointed out that WiFi transmits continuously, whether data are being transferred or not. So if it is only when data are being transmitted it clearly isn't WiFi that is causing the problem, because WiFi power is the same whether data are moving or not.

Only im talking about bluetooth and not WIFI.  And do you have a source that bluetooth transmits continuously at the same wave whether data are being transferred or not?

Csound1 wrote:

 

Also note that although the maximum transmission power is the same for both, in practice it is very different. All 802.11 WiFi transmitters radiate their maximum power of 100mw all the time. Bluetooth devices are almost exclusively less than 2.5mw, hence the short range.

The WiFi output power of a phone is 30 mw. And most home routers are also 30 mw. There are hacks to increase the output power of routers, but out-of-the-box home routers do not go higher than 78 mw. Commercial routers may go as high as 250 mw, but that is unusual. 100 mw is more common. The output power of BlueTooth depends on use, but Class 2, which is what the iPhone uses to connect to headsets, is 2.5 mw. The watch does not use Class 2, however; it is a Class 3 device (also called BlueTooth Low Energy, LE, or BlueTooth 4) and is limited to 1 mw.

(I'm not out to contradict you, only to supplement your correct post).

No, it is not transmission power, that is consistent unless using the Low Power protocol so the transmission of data would only make it last longer. I believe you may be misunderstanding what Csound1 is saying. It only happening 1 or 2 feet from you makes no sense whatsoever, the signal would not be that much higher from 2 feet to 15 feet. Other people using Bluetooth headphones seated next to you would make you sick.

I think you need to discuss this issue with your doctor.

Ah, well if you are talking about ONLY BlueTooth then that DEFINITELY is not your problem, as it is limited to 1 mw for Bluetooth LE (what the watch uses).

jdestremps wrote:

 

@deggie "for the rest it is psychological issues."   Really? Please provide links to the studies that you are referring to.   Where did you hear this?

I sure we’re all getting tired of your relentless mission. Please tell us what you plan to do about it other than site pseudoscientific articles and such. Any plans to seek compensation for your pain? Any plans to sue anybody over this? Is the end game to ban the use of electromagnetic waves? How about forcing the rest of us to turn off our devices in your presence? How about designing and wearing a Faraday cage garment for yourself? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I think this situation (and possibly this thread) was noticed by Scott Adams today: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07

deggie wrote:

 

No, it is not transmission power, that is consistent unless using the Low Power protocol so the transmission of data would only make it last longer. I believe you may be misunderstanding what Csound1 is saying. It only happening 1 or 2 feet from you makes no sense whatsoever, the signal would not be that much higher from 2 feet to 15 feet. Other people using Bluetooth headphones seated next to you would make you sick.

 

I think you need to discuss this issue with your doctor.

I just notice I'm more sensitive to it when I'm very close by it and when it's transferring data, it's a radio wave and like all other radio waves, the closer you are to it the stronger the signal.  As to why it's happening on bluetooth and not all other radio waves (WIFI, microwaves... etc) who knows.  Just came here to say Winerunner is not alone.  This experience is very fresh to me because it was only a few days ago I set up my apple watch and started getting these dizziness and uncomfort when I turned on my bluetooth on my iPhone and started transferring music from it to my apple watch. 

As far as seeing a doctor, I think I'm just going to return the watch and leave the BT off on my iPhone.  Based on my research this is not a common problem, at all.  It really ***** because I love the watch.  Anyways, just because it's not happening to you, doesn't mean this problem doesn't exist for others.  I have better things to do than to google these symptoms I'm having and coming across this thread, and to convince you all I'm actually having these discomforts with bluetooth like Winerunner. 

wongster41 wrote:

 

I just notice I'm more sensitive to it when I'm very close by it and when it's transferring data,

The problem with your theory for the cause of your discomfort is that you don't necessarily always know when you are near a BT device that is transferring data. You could be standing next to someone on an elevator, on a train, the car next to you in a traffic jam. There could well have been many times that you have been near BT devices transferring data without knowing it and have not felt ill.

No one is suggesting you are not experiencing symptoms. Of something. As the likelihood of it having anything to do with BT is so infinitesimally small as to be non-existent, the recommendations to see a doctor who might be able to help you figure out what your actual problem is are very sound.

Thankyou Wongster41, I appreciate the support! Like me, you know that something is going on but you don't know what. Maybe it is the combo of the tight band, the HR checking technology - that'll set off a few replies I am sure :-) - and the blue tooth that is a fatal combo for a small section of the population. There's plenty of people out there with scientific papers happy to tell us that nothing is happening. Doesn't change this for us, does it? ah well, life is too short to worry about it! A colleague now has my Apple Watch, I don't seem to have any of the issues any more, and life goes on. Thanks once again For taking the time to write and support me.

You should return it. You can't change what the watch is made of now. Tell Apple WHY you are returning it and move on. No one knows they have lettuce between their teeth unless someone tells them. Say nothing, and they have no clue they need to take an action. Going around to everyone at the party telling other guests about the lady with the lettuce in her teeth is useless, and unfair to the person who should know this.