dynamically change layer order

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Level 1

8 points

dynamically change layer order

Motion 5. I have a layout of 6 photos arranged in 2 rows x 3 columns (3d)

I want to bring the first photo to the front, (still showing the other photos in the background) while we do a voice over explaining about it, then I want to do the same with the next one, and so on.

Problem is I cant find a way to change the layer order, if I cant do that then my selected photo always shows up behind the rest, I tried changing the Z order but it seems that layer order has priority.

This appears to be a fundamental thing that I'm missing somewhere

Motion 5, OS X Yosemite (10.10.3)

Posted on May 6, 2015 12:47 AM

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Answer 1

May 6, 2015 1:36 AM in response to peteburford

peteburford wrote:
... I tried changing the Z order but it seems that layer order has priority....

hmm, really? Actually not sitting at my Mac, ... you have applied a '3D camera' to your project to make 'depth' active?

http://help.apple.com/motion/mac/5.0/en/motion/usermanual/#chapter=21%26section= 5%26hash=apple_ref:doc:uid:Motion-UserMa…

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Answer 2

GFXZen

Level 4

1,985 points

May 6, 2015 7:43 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

Another option, if you don't need a camera is to just make the group the layers are in a 3D group. You can do this by selecting the group in the layer list or timeline and clicking the icon next to the lock, or going to the inspector's group tab and changing the group type to 3D.

Basically when you have a 2D group, even though you can move things in 3D space they are rendered in layer order (from the bottom of the list up). Switching to a 3D group, renders the scene in depth order (nearest first). I'd start here and if it's still not working just update this thread. There are other more complex issues that can come into play depending on your project, but lets keep it simple for now. 🙂 In addition to the section of the documentation Karsten suggested, I'd recommend just taking some time read up on these sections.

https://help.apple.com/motion/mac/5.2/?lang=en#/motn669ec68

https://help.apple.com/motion/mac/5.2/?lang=en#/motn17c693e2

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Answer 3

peteburford Author

Level 1

8 points

May 6, 2015 8:00 AM in response to GFXZen

Thanks for the suggestion, but, I already have a camera, and all my groups are already 3d groups.

Basically, when I change the z axis of my 1st group I want it to be in front of the 2nd group, but it still remains behind the 2nd group even though it now appears closer to the camera.

The groups remain fixed in their layer order regardless of the z axis changing.

If I manually change the layer order, then I can make the 2nd group in front of the first, but I want to do this dynamically and have any group appear in front of the others.

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Answer 4

GFXZen

Level 4

1,985 points

May 6, 2015 8:48 AM in response to peteburford

Now the fun begins.😉

My next guess is you've got something in your setup that triggers "rasterization". Basically, there are a wide set of things (filters, blend modes, text settings, lights, 3D text) that can force the scene back to layer order rendering. It mostly gets covered in this section of the documentation: https://help.apple.com/motion/mac/5.2/?lang=en#/motne6b2ddf0

If you have to re-order layers to get depth to work in a 3D scene, something is probably being rasterized. There are some clues in the UI to find the triggers for this. In the inspector, if you look at the layer properties, there are red badges with an R that indicate parameters that trigger rasterization. Additionally, some layers and groups get a white outline on the icon when something is being rasterized. If you are in this state, it may mean you need to adjust how things are built to work around the rasterization.

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Answer 5

peteburford Author

Level 1

8 points

May 6, 2015 8:20 AM in response to GFXZen

So I have solved it, but it's a little strange

I read and understand that 3d groups are depth order and 2d groups are layered order, but this was NOT the case in my project.

For each photo, I have an outer group (3D) and an Inner group (3D) which contained the drop zone.

I was using the outer group to control the positioning of everything inside (drop zone, image masks, text, etc)

If I change the inner group from 3d to 2d, then wonderful it works as expected.

If I only have a single group for the photo, then it works fine, but the problem happens with nested groups.

It's repeatable, I tried this on another project and the behaviour is not quite as expected with nested groups that overlap. I expected the outer group's settings to override everything inside , including the inner group, but this isn't the case.

Outer AND inner group 3D , it doesn't work = i can't change which group appears in front by changing the z axis.

Outer group 3D, inner group 2D, it works fine, I can change which one appears in front just by changing the Z axis

Thanks to everyone for their advice, it got me to thinking a little differently 🙂

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Answer 6

peteburford Author

Level 1

8 points

May 6, 2015 8:47 AM in response to GFXZen

You were correct, it was rasterization.

I delved in a little deeper.

The thing that caught me out, is that whenI load my project everything is fine, no white outlines indicating rasterisation!

It only changes to the little white outline when I move one group over the other.

The white outline is so small it goes unnoticed (perhaps apple should consider changing this to a red colour).

Anyway the rasterisation was caused by using Opacity, so I have switched that off for now.

Great help, thanks so much.

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Answer 7

GFXZen

Level 4

1,985 points

May 6, 2015 9:05 AM in response to peteburford

Glad you worked it out. It's tricky concept, the next thing is to think about how to work around the problem and as you've seen, there can be several options.

-Make the groups 2D (and fixed resolution).

-Change where the trigger happens (example: change the layer(s) opacity, not the group). Apply filters in different locations (layers vs. groups).

-Pre-render elements and then build them into another project.

Even the most advanced users bump their heads against this sometimes and forget about it. Flexibility in the approach and creative thinking are the keys working around it. cheers.

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Answer 8

May 6, 2015 9:26 AM in response to GFXZen

GFXZen wrote:

… In the inspector, if you look at the layer properties, there are red badges with an R that indicate parameters that trigger rasterization. Additionally, some layers and groups get a white outline on the icon when something is being rasterized ...

Holy mackerel how should anyone know that??! (Don't tell me "Read The Manual", this is my boilerplate!!)

Only a Sith Lord of IXth degree get this info, right?

..........

'til your post, I said, I have the basics of Motion avail. Most. 50%. Some .. a few......

No, no, no, no. no .... I'm a beginner, a noob, a fly! a dead mosquito!!!

Thanks for sharing that info, hope, Gee, you don't get a surprise visit from the Men In Black 'cause sharing secrets ...

Did you hear that whisper too?

"this message will self destruct in 5 seconds" ....

😁 😁 😁

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