I've upgraded to Logic Pro 7.2.3 (though, I am far from a pro user in my skills).
Question: I'm using Apple's JamPack Orchestra. Using a continuous
controller (I forget the exact controller number), one can change the
articulations of the instrument (legato, stacatto, and so forth).
Ideally, I'd like to touch a note in the score editor and "tell it" to use a
particular controller value for stacatto, then touch another note in
the score editor, and tell it to use legato, and so forth.
What is the most efficient way to do this?
Here is how I do it now.
I open the score editor. I also open the Event List editor. These
are all "linked". Where I want an articulation change, I click on the
note in the score editor, then I go to the Event List editor, and
that particular note is automatically selected and highlighted.
I then add the new controller value at that point. This seems,
however, a little slow and unintuitive, is there a better way?
hi, afaik, it's cc#1 for articulations.
just use hyper draw found in the view menu of the score editor.
read the section in logic's manual.
afaik, there are 4 articulations. these are probably mapped out thus(cc#1): 0-30, 31-63, 64-95, 96-127. arco is probably 0-30, for example.
hi, afaik, it's cc#1 for articulations.
just use hyper draw found in the view menu of the score editor.
read the section in logic's manual.
afaik, there are 4 articulations. these are probably mapped out thus(cc#1): 0-30, 31-63, 64-95, 96-127. arco is probably 0-30, for example.
I did as you suggested, but in the Score Editor, I used the menu
View>Hyper Draw>Foot Control
and it worked fine.
I then went to the Event List editor to clean things up. For instance,
when I drew in using hyper draw, it drew diagonal lines, putting
in more controllers between two notes than I really wanted. So,
I selected the ones I didn't want and deleted them.
Also, in the event list editor, I reassigned the temporal placement of
the controllers so that they occurred exactly at the same time point
as the note they are to effect, but these controllers are ordered such
that they appear in the list just before each note, and this worked
fine.
Follow up question:
Let's say that I have one measure with three notes, and the first note
is legato, and the following pair of notes are stacatto.
I set the controllers as outlined above. But, when I am in the score
editor and I select the notes, copy them, and paste them into a new
measure, the articulation information captured in the controller
is not pasted in with them.
What is the solution for this, if any?
Here is my temporary solution:
I went to the event list editor, and because each controller was
neatly arranged to be within the measure that it effected, I selected
all the controllers and notes for the measure, copied them,
then shifted to the score editor, and pasted the information to
a new information. Both the notes and their controller information
were pasted in.
Follow up idea:
What do experienced Logic users think of this idea:
some controller information, as decided by the person using the
Logic Pro application, should be allowed to be "attached" to
a note, so that when it is copied and pasted within the score
editor, it may, at the user's descretion, also copy and paste
the associated controller information.
you can use midi channel changes to control this if you want.
in general it is wise to have a GM instrument (midi) brought up in arrange. make them for each part in your score.
next cable the GM instrument to a transformer. you can then set the M Cha to correspond to whatever articulation you want. then cable this to your esx instrument (or whatever)
then, all you have to do is adjust the midi channel of the notes to correspond to the articulation you want to use. so if stoccato was say cc1 with a value of 2, then set the M cha to 2. (don't forget you will have to compensate for the existence of cc1 value 0).
set a key command for Midi cha +/- 1, then changing articulations would be as simple as hitting a KC.
i know this sounds a little complicated but you could download my orchestral template and have a look at how i do it. the only thing is i prefer to use program changes in general to switch articulations because of midi channels are needed for advanced score notation. using midi channel is faster though, adn will accomplish what you are looking for since the midi channel will be preserved when you copy and paste. it has other advantages as well.
have a look at my template, and have a go at doing it with Midi cha. you are bound to have further questions so post back and i'll do what i can to help.
Thanks for your suggestions. I will take this rather slowly, and
in detail, as a lot of this is new to me.
Here is what I have done so far. Keep in mind that these actions
may not be a direct way to understanding your solution, but
hopefully they will enlighten me in some respect which will eventually
have some benefit.
To begin with, I used by other computer which sends MIDI to
Logic in my G4, and wrote out three simple measures. The
beginning of each measure specifies a channel number and a
program (or patch) number.
I then played the song on this external computer and watched the
MIDI information as displayed within Logic Pro's Environment's
Clicks and Port's Input View window and it showed the following:
means, but these statements are essentially
sending all notes off commands to channel
1 and then to channel 2.
The # sign represents a program change, the number
associated with the # sign represents the channel number,
and the other number (17, 18, or 59) is the patch number
I'm requesting (Strings pizz, Strings trem., Harp).
While the external computer played the music into Logic,
I highlighted a MIDI track in the arrange window, it
was record enabled, so the MIDI signals flowed into Logic,
and flowed out of Logic to an outboard sound sample
player (Proteus/2), so I could hear the patch changes and
the melody.
Also, I got up to investigate that the appropriate
channels were actually being used, and they were
not (at least not in the conventianal sense). This is because
in the arrange window, the track I record enabled was assigned
to MIDI channel 1, so all signals went out to MIDI channel 1,
even if the external computer specified that the last
program change should sound on MIDI channel 2.
However, if in the arrange window I tell the track to
play out ALL MIDI channels, then indeed the channel
requests are honored, and the outboard synth will
play the first two measures on channel 1 (with the
requested patches) and play the last measure on
channel 2(with the requested patch).
Again, the above may be a far hill away from understanding
your solution, but each small step hopefully will help
in some way at some time.
My next step was to notate some music within Logic.
Again, I created a melody across three bars. But
this time, I used the menu:
View>Hyper Draw>Program Change
and I drew in the program changes. I then went to the
Event List editor to clean up, so that each program change
occurred exactly in time with the first note of each measure
(there were no rests in the melody), and such that the
program change was listed just before the note it was
to effect.
I then played this song out to the outboard synth and it
worked fine (but, since there was nothing specified about
the channel number, only one channel was used).
I then selected these three measures in the Score Editor,
copied them, and pasted them into a following measure.
The program change information was not copied along
with them.
However, if I went to the arrange window and selected
the track as a whole, copied it, and pasted it as a new
track, and then looked at the copy within the score
editor (with hyper editor shown below it), indeed the
notes as well as the program changes both were copied
together.
My next step was to try to find the "channel +1" key commands
you referred to in your above respone, which I think I did find as follows:
"•Event Channel +1" I assigned this to the "+" key.
"•Event Channel -1" I assigned this to the "-" key.
I then went to the hyper edit window to try out these command keys.
I selected the first program change event, and then pressed the "+" key.
Nothing happened. Then I tried the "-" key command, and nothing
happened.
Then I went to the Score Editor, selected a note, used the "+" key
command and nothing happened, and then tried the "-" key command
and nothing happened.
So, I guess my first, simple question is:
When you say, "set a key command for Midi cha +/- 1"
do you mean the key commands
"•Event Channel +1" and "•Event Channel -1" ?
Thanks,
Sys6
P.S.
I visited the web site you suggested and downloaded your
orchestral template which you kindly made available
to everyone, but as you can see, I'm not quite
ready to fully understand it at this time.
I've spent some time today playing around with your Logic Pro
orchestral set-up. Here is my beginner's analysis, which will
certainly contain errors, but it is a part of my learning process.
Some of this information may be rather mundane for advanced
Logic Pro users, but I actually find it all rather interesting to see
a working example of a Logic Pro set-up and to try to understand
it.
When I loaded your song, I received this error: "Instrument
"MPX 110" sends to MIDI port named "Port 5" of MIDI
interface "gPort" which no longer exists." But, the song still
loaded.
This analysis tracks "Violin 1" on the arrange window.
On the arrange page, "Violin 1" is an instrument. It's
port is off. If MIDI notes were on this track, and the
song was played, the MIDI information would be sent to this
instrument.
In the Environment, on the Strings page, the instrument
"Violin 1" is found. It is a small box near the bottom of the page.
"Violin 1" has two MIDI outputs, presumably both outputs
carry identical MIDI information flowing through them.
We will only investigate the path which ultimately leads
to "Violin Full 1".
The lines to "(Fader)" with "28" written on it. I do not know
about these yet, and will skip it, only following the line which
leaves this box and reaches the first "(transformer)" box.
This first "(transformer)" box carries out the most important
part of this discussion. It says that any program change i on any
channel will, for that same channel, be converted to a continuous
controller of 1 having a value of i.
For my testing, I changed the "1" in this transformer dialog to
"4", because continuous controller 4 is used by the Apple
orchestra instruments to change the articulation.
Double-clicking in the body of this second "(transformer)" box
opens a window (or dialog window). This dialog basically
says this: If the MIDI signal traveling through this transformer
has anything to do with MIDI channels 4 or 5, that MIDI information
is blocked; only MIDI information on all other channels is allowed
to pass through. This has more to do with Rohan's set-up than
anything else. The output from this box leads to "Violin Full 1".
"Violin Full 1" was in Rohan's set-up probably an audio instrument.
When I opened it up, it had no output, probably because I do not
have the same type of audio instrument that Rohan has. So, I set
the output to Apple's full string section. Now when I play my keyboard,
I hear strings.
Note, by the way, the "(Monitor)" object. It shows all the MIDI information
that the "Violin Full 1" is receiving. Note also that any program change
information is transformed into continuous controller information
which is probably what the
|
0
means (continuous controller).
Now, my external, old computer, running old notation software, will
be used as the input MIDI signal. In the score, is that same, 3 bar
melody, and at the beginning of each measure if the following
program change command:
MIDI Channel 1 will use patch 17.
MIDI Channel 2 will use patch 120.
MIDI Channel 3 will use patch 60.
These get converted to the following continuous
controller signals:
MIDI Channel 1, Continuous Controller 4, valued at 17.
MIDI Channel 2, Continuous Controller 4, valued at 119.
MIDI Channel 3, Continuous Controller 4, valued at 59.
Note, by the way, that in the left dialog, I said: MIDI Chann: All.
This is why you are seeing continuous controller data being
received on channels 1, 2, and 3. But, this really has no effect
on the outcome when using Apple's orchestra. If you set
MIDI Chann: 1, the sound is the same, but now the conversion
looks like this:
MIDI Channel 1, Continuous Controller 4, valued at 17.
MIDI Channel 1, Continuous Controller 4, valued at 119.
MIDI Channel 1, Continuous Controller 4, valued at 59.
When I play the song on the external computer, the G4
computer housing the Logic Pro application plays the
melody using Apple's strings, and the first measure is
played with short bow for each note, the second measure
is played pizzicato, and the third measure tremolo.
Thanks, Rohan, for your great example.
Question:
The one part I am still vague on, is that when I am in the
score editor, how do I easily input a note and associate
a program (or patch) change to it?
you won't SEE any change when you change the midi channel - you will see it in the event editor however.
you can set the program and patch changes much more easily in event editor than in hyperdraw.
the process by which you use midi channel changes to to change articulations will probably be best used with internal audio instruments (though of course it can be done with external too).
i suggested you look at my template so that you can see the midi signal flow from instrument represented in a score to the esx instrument.
you can use midi channel to change articulation either by mapping the midi changes to the appropriate cc1 message, or you can go into the esx instrumnet and change how the esx instrument plays groups.
if you click 'edit' on the instrument, the editor will open showing zones on the left amd groups on the right. the groups should relate to the articulations and ideally velocity levels.
so the groups might look like this:
violins arco p
violins arco mf
violins arco f
violins arco ff
violins detaché p
violins detaché.....etc etc
and so on and so on.
for the first 4 groups in my example, there will be vleocity levels, so 'violins arco p' will be '0 to 32' or something like that and the next group will be' 33 to 64' or whatever.
but there is also another field (and you might need to make sure you can see it by going to view -> group: select by in the menu at the top) called select by: [drop down menu field]
currently your esx instrumnets are set to change articulation by control. you can then see the control number and the range.
but you could change this so that the group can be selected by midi cha.
therefore if you played a note that was midi channel 1 with a velocity of 40, only the second group would play. if you were to set the groups that corresponded to detaché to midi channel 2, then only the group that corresponded to the velocity and midi channel would play.
there are caveats to using midi channel to select articulation. i suggest you read the thread at logicprohelp:
where i have a file to show how i do it using program changes and an explanation why i use program changes as opposed to midi cha changes. the main advantage to midi channel changes is that it is much faster and simpler.
When I loaded your song, I received this error: "Instrument
"MPX 110" sends to MIDI port named "Port 5" of MIDI
interface "gPort" which no longer exists." But, the song still
loaded.
they are my midi instruments. this is normal
The lines to "(Fader)" with "28" written on it. I do not know
about these yet, and will skip it, only following the line which
leaves this box and reaches the first "(transformer)" box.
this converts pan info into direction mixer info so that you can have stereo panning.
The one part I am still vague on, is that when I am in the
score editor, how do I easily input a note and associate
a program (or patch) change to it?
ok - if you are going to be using program changes to switch articulation, then the best way of inserting them is with the event editor. i have this down so that i can do this very quickly. i have single stroke key command for opening the event editor (as well as a single stroke command for closing windows). simply apple-click the the '88' sign on the left of the window and a program change will be inserted in the current SPL position. press return and then select your articulation.
for copy and pasting, i go into this editor quite a bit to 'pick up' the program changes that aren't visible in the score. i can then paste them in the score in what ever position or instrument i want and the program change is carried over with it. since i have similar program changes for articulations across all my strings say, i can edit very quickly.
