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Panasonic 4K cameras/files with fcpx

Hello everyone.

I'm planning on getting another video camera, possibly 4K, but would first like to understand how people are handling 4K files, or if you are downsizing, etc.


Basically I want to get something that will be much better video quality than my Canon hf g20, and to me, it seems the AVCHD codec is what's crippling my aspirations. I also have a BMPCC, which of course gives me a picture quality that is really good (when the situation is appropriate), but I'm looking at Panasonic's lineup, their video cameras and the LX100, FZ1000, GH4 (or 3,) because the allow for 100mbit recording (only in 4K), which I imagine would be much better video quality. I've done a lot of reading but haven't gotten a really good idea of how to handle post. So, my main Qs for those who are using these cameras are:


1) Are you directly importing them into FCPX as 4K files, converting them to ProRes 4K, and if so, how much bigger are the files compared to HD and how much does it slow down your system (note: I'm using a 2014 15" MBP with video card)?


2) Is there a way to convert 4K files to standard 1080HD, and if so is there a major hit on video quality?


3) How well can you mix 4K video with 1080HD from other cameras?


Thanks people

Posted on May 28, 2015 9:24 PM

Reply
7 replies

May 28, 2015 11:24 PM in response to HCouf

// preface: I'm no pixelpeeper … //


'quality' isn't determined by the device, but by the person handling it.

I've seen superb pictures, using a 'cheap', consumer camcorder. And I've seen terrible quality, using e.g. a Canon 5d II....


in use here:

FZ1000 MacMini (late 2012), 16GB Ram, no discreet GPU, a software Raid0, done with 2x2.5" usb3 Toshiba drives ...


User uploaded file

(my trusty lil' friend)



@ 1) Direct import, no conversion, files are on my Raid0 = no speed/playback issues

@ 2) NewProject, 1080… drag clips into it.... FCPX does the rest.

@ 3) I'm mixing 4k (much re-framing), 1080/25p, 1080/30p, 720/60p ... FCPX handles 'multi formats' very user friendly = I don't have to care...


... me no engineer, but promoting a simple rule: each 'stream' on its own platter (= in use here 6 HDs); doing so, my underpowered hobbyist set-up handles 6x Multicam incl. 4k material .... switch-off the MutiCam Viewer, avoid compounds = all easy ... Next investment will be an ext.SSD, looking forward how that handles the data....


As mentioned before: I haven't compared 4k>>1080 vs. direct 1080 recording. In theory, the downsampled material should be 'better'. But ... I very rarely produce 'cineastic', means: setting lights, care for DR, care for DoF, check histogram etc etc... I'm more the point'n shoot guy.


If you want a noticeable leap in quality, switch to 4:2:2 formats ... ahh, you did allready, with your BMPC 😀


My story is for shoestring-budgets; if I would do it for living, a MacPro + a Pegasus would be my choice either.... LOL! 😉

May 29, 2015 6:46 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

Yes, I've gone into 4:2:2 land, have tasted the waters, and been left with mixed feelings. The BMPCC is very limiting and quirky. One night it completely destroyed my recording of a show. Once I set it up on a tripod, hit record, and 10 mins later checked to make sure everything was OK. Well, it wasn't. It was saying there was no SD card in the slot (there was, one which I had used several times before flawlessly). I turned off the camera, turned it back on, repeated that, then unplugged the camera, removed it from the tripod, took the card out, put it back in, finally it decided to read the card, I set it back up, lost another 8 minutes of the show or so, then, in my irritated state, forgot to plug it back in. I only managed to record about 25 minutes of the show.F$%"&K. One club I film at, the lighting creates a strobing effect with the BMPCC. One day a friend of mine had a party at the club and I took the camera just to see if I could get rid of the problem. I went through every combination of frame rate and angle and couldn't eliminate it completely. I can eliminate it with my HF G20. And for low light. F#$%K. If I wanted a shallow depth of field, no problem, but I often don't. I often want as much in focus as is possible when I'm filming a music show. I want the whole band in focus. That's OK with the HF G20, but not with the BMPCC. And don't get me started about no stabilisation. Even though I usually put it on a tripod, there are times when I wish I could do handheld with it.

However, the g20 has that silly AVCHD. It looks good at first, but grading is not that easy, unpredictable, can't bring out detail in the blacks, and when I get a good shot on the BMPCC it looks soooo much better after grading. But it's easier to get a good shot with the G20. If they would only make their 50mb/sec codec available on their lower end video cameras then I might be OK with that. Of course ProRes on a Canon would be wonderful, but it ain't gonna happen.


Now don't get me wrong, I love that little BMPCC. When the situation is good, it's great! But it's limitations have messed me up a few times, and I'm looking for something a bit more flexible. I do some multi-camera shoots of music shows. I was hoping Blackmagic would come out with a more advanced unit but the lack of a screen on their recent announcements kills it for me. That's why I'm looking at the Panys and their higher bit rates when shooting 4K.

May 29, 2015 7:58 AM in response to HCouf

HCouf wrote:

…That's why I'm looking at the Panys and their higher bit rates when shooting 4K.

I'd say, we're talking here about 95% vs. 99,5% quality... 😝

And when those grains of 'better' are really important for you, you don't come across a 'test'. There are thousands of rental shops - rent your candidates and use them in your enviroment. Recording in clubs?? That's indeed 'special'. Huge dynamic range, or no light at all. Shutter speed vs. strob light effects, Subjects moving, camera moving....


… not the 'best' conditions for quality. 😀


And good rental shops are good consultants, they are not 'fixed' to one brand or type of recorder.! Tell them, what you like to accomplish. Then, with 3-4 cameras in the pockets make a test drive..... And bit-rate alone isn't the whole story; is it a All-i or an interframe compression. Color-subsampling? And, finally, in your light-situation, speed of glas and sensitivity of sensor is important .


Have you seen this?

https://vimeo.com/105690274

A movie, recorded at night, in color... just moonlight. Sony A7s. Awesome technique.


Test some cameras. Trust your eyes, not 'experts'.

That simple.

May 29, 2015 3:50 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

Rentals - I'm an American living in Japan, talk is not so easy and I don't know any of those shops.


Yeah, bit-rate alone isn't everything, but at least on paper it looks a LOT better (4K at 100 mb/sec vs 1080 at 24mb/sec) and from what I've seen on the net it looks cleaner, more detailed, sharper, which, while I like the basic picture from the G20, sharpening it brings out lots of undesireable artefacts.


But my main Qs are about about how to use the video in post, downscaling to 1080, file size.


Also, I'm covered when it comes to storage, using SSDs and hard disk raids.

May 29, 2015 11:16 PM in response to HCouf

HCouf wrote:

…my main Qs are about about how to use the video in post, downscaling to 1080, file size.

...

as I mentioned above: FCPX is 'multi-formatable' (<< that's no English, but I hope you feel what I mean 🙂 )

create a 1080 project, and FCPX will downscale your 4k material on export. Mentioned that too, 4k in 1080 allows excellent re-framing.

And: file.size shouldn't be an issue in movie-making, you get 1TB actually below 50bucks.... a single 4k-source doesn't stress a usb2 connection, nor tb.

Just follow the simple rule: keep OS/app/project physically seperated from source/raws/clips.....


HCouf wrote:

Rentals - I'm an American living in Japan, talk is not so easy and I don't know any of those shops.....

I have no clue about Japan in general and about camera-rentals there in detail 😁

... I would be surprised, if such a business doesn't exist in tech-gadget-craze Japan ....

I dare to say: most film/movie/clip-producers rent tools.


time to find a good translator. 😉

May 30, 2015 8:35 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

OK, so let me see if I've got this. I can


1) Import the 4K file from the camera into FCPX as a new library, choosing optimised media, which would create a 4K file in ProRes. Make a project of it and then share it as a 1080P file, then load it into a project that is already 1080P. OR


2) Just load the 1080P files from the BMPCC first into a new library, make a project, and then just import the 4K file (optimised) into the library, and then the project, and everything just works, having 1080 and 4K in the same project? In that case would the computer work slower dealing with the different kinds of video files?

May 30, 2015 4:42 PM in response to HCouf

HCouf wrote:


OK, so let me see if I've got this. …

No, you haven't... 😀

Not to offend you, but ... Why do you want to optimize? Why do you want to ex-/import projects?? Why do you think, clips in a project effects other???


In short:

Don't waste time to care manually about 'formats'. Reading your workflows makes me dizzy 😝

When I want to deliver in 1080, I set up a new project in that format. And drag 4k, 1080, 720 clips into it ...

I don't care. FCPX does.


Concerning 'distributing source media'

There are several sites&videos&workshops&books explaining what & where, e.g.

http://www.larryjordan.biz/fcp-x-convert-managed-to-external-media/


savvy? 😉

Panasonic 4K cameras/files with fcpx

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