mdmcxyz

Q: G4 AGP 450 mhz, OS X, and OS 9.2.2 revisited-HELP

I am new to the group.  I am still eeking out use of my G4 w. OS 10.4.11 and OS 9.2.2, and using a Sonnet 1.2 Encore Processor, without any problem for years.

I could use Option key or Startup Disk to switch between the two OS's, but had been having increasing trouble with OS 9.2.2 finishing booting, and the screen looking very strange until it finishes.  Now, the Option key function doesn't work, and I can't reboot to OS 9.2.2 at all using Startup Disk.  I can use it in OS 10.4.11, and can use OS 9.2.2 in Classic mode, but all my music/sequencing software is OS 9.2.2, so I am dead in the water in that avenue.  I have tried clearing PRAM, NVRAM, resetting all via machine language, no change.  An old string here (A BRODY)  said he knew the URL to download OS 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 updates.  My questions are:  is my motherboard bad (ie, is the startup manager hardwired on the board?); does anyone know the URL so I can download OS 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 update?  Help, SOS, dying G4 needs assistance!  Oh, also, when I try to boot up from my old OS 9 disks, they don't boot, just get a grey screen w. a grid on it.

 

Michael

PowerMac, Mac OS X (10.4.11), 450 mhz, using Sonnet 1.2 processor

Posted on Jun 19, 2015 1:12 PM

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Q: G4 AGP 450 mhz, OS X, and OS 9.2.2 revisited-HELP

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  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 23, 2015 4:38 PM in response to BDAqua
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 23, 2015 4:38 PM in response to BDAqua

    Yes, Fahrenheit.  I can't find any way to find a sensor that reads the CPU temp.  I think it is too old to have one, or an MPU card.  They only talk about Intel based G5's with MPU cards or other abilities.  They talk about older Macs with an inferior TAU sensor, but that's about it. 

     

    Currently:

    111

    100

    102

    I have switched back and forth a couple of times, and the screen messes up, but recovers and continues booting to OS9

    Once it boots, it has continued to reboot in OS with the startup sound.

     

    By the way, thanks for spending so much time with me on this, I know it's a very old machine.

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 23, 2015 5:16 PM in response to Glen Doggett
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 23, 2015 5:16 PM in response to Glen Doggett

    I got Temperature Monitor.  The temp. readings it is giving me is associated with three of my hard drives, and not even the main hd.

    I couldn't find a way to select a CPU temperature.

     

    Is there something I am missing in the Prefs?  When I tried to start a new History Window, no CPU temps came up to watch.

     

    M

  • by BDAqua,

    BDAqua BDAqua Jun 23, 2015 5:43 PM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 10 (123,501 points)
    Jun 23, 2015 5:43 PM in response to mdmcxyz

    Yeah, there are likely no temp sensors on the CPU. You're not missing any setting or pref.

  • by Glen Doggett,

    Glen Doggett Glen Doggett Jun 23, 2015 8:30 PM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 4 (1,863 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 23, 2015 8:30 PM in response to mdmcxyz

    it might not have a sensor, or the older version of Temperature Monitor does not recognize it.  you might try hardware monitor, not sure if it will help.

    http://www.bresink.com/osx/HardwareMonitor.html

     

    random booting problems are often related to a dead PRAM battery, unpredictable things can happen, you might try replacing that, I thought someone had already suggested that.

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 23, 2015 9:58 PM in response to Glen Doggett
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 23, 2015 9:58 PM in response to Glen Doggett

    Yes, thanks, I had replaced the battery about a week before all this started.  I replaced the battery, bought new Ram (2G), bought a Sonnet ATA card, added two drives, generally trying to get whatever life is left out of it.   If I replace the motherboard, that's gonna have to be about it, I will just live with the problem I have.

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 23, 2015 10:13 PM in response to Glen Doggett
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 23, 2015 10:13 PM in response to Glen Doggett

    Hardware Monitor is designed to support sensors of Apple Macintosh computers released between August 2002 and October 2012. The number of sensors varies greatly between different model series.

     

    Here is what they said about Hardware Monitor.  Mine is older, a 450 mhz G4 Graphite, w. a Sonnet Processor 1.2mhz

     

    Thanks for the suggestion, though.

    M

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 25, 2015 11:32 AM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 25, 2015 11:32 AM in response to mdmcxyz

    When I get my motherboard and install it, I will let you know the results.  I have contacted Sonnet to see if they have any installers that address this problem (it's old, so they may not have much around anymore) and I downloaded what they have online.

     

    As long as I stay in OS9xx it starts up ok.  When I start going back and forth I run the risk of the screen freezes, etc.  Since I use it mostly for my music, I can stay in OS9 and use OS10.x.x to go online and download specific Mac things, and print from the G4.  To print out my music i have to make a complete Finale file in OSX, but there are workarounds.

     

    Thanks so far, Glen and BD, for your help and suggestions so far, and I will update this when I think I have finished this journey!

     

    M

  • by Glen Doggett,

    Glen Doggett Glen Doggett Jun 25, 2015 12:43 PM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 4 (1,863 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 25, 2015 12:43 PM in response to mdmcxyz

    From distant memory, I recall that when I used a G4 CPU upgrade in my G3, I had to use a different OS 9 Startup Disk Control Panel, not the one built-in with Mac OS, but one provided by XLR8 or Sonnet, this was in addition to the cache enabler utility. 

     

    An alternative boot utility that might help you is XPostFacto, this may be a more robust tool for selecting your startup disk, considering the issues you have been having.  It was written to support older machines booting into later versions of OS X than are officially supported, like my G3 could boot into 10.4, for example, but it might help with the problems you are having as well.  Free download from OWC.

    https://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/Framework.cfm


    "Switching between Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X

      Once you have installed Mac OS X, you may want to reboot into Mac OS 9 at some point. One way to do this is to hold down the option-key while restarting. However, it sometimes happens that when you install Mac OS X, your Mac OS 9 System Folder becomes "unblessed." In this case, you can use the "Startup Disk" panel in the Mac OS X "System Preferences" application. This will re-bless the System Folder and permit you to reboot into Mac OS 9.

      After you reboot into Mac OS 9, you can use XPostFacto to return to Mac OS X. Simply select the desired startup volume and press the restart button. XPF will write the required settings to non-volatile RAM (NVRAM), and restart the computer. (Restarting from the Finder is not affected by your selection here.

     

     

    You can now use XPF to choose whether to boot from Mac OS 9 or Mac OS X (via the options in the main XPF window). If you choose Mac OS 9, you'll boot from whichever Mac OS 9 disk you last booted from. It isn't possible to select a specific Mac OS 9 disk to boot from.  "

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 25, 2015 3:04 PM in response to Glen Doggett
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 25, 2015 3:04 PM in response to Glen Doggett

    Thanks for the suggestion, Glenn.  I read the info on it, and it appears recommended for certain older machines, and I didn't see mine listed or discussed. 

     

    I do remember on one of my OS9xx versions seein a Startup X in my control panel in OS9, that must be what you were talking about, meant to help changing to OSX.  My problem is changing back from OSX to OS9, that is when I have the problems.

     

    I am able to minimize it by staying in OS9 unless I really need to be in OSX.  I have a Dell PC for everyday activities, browsing, email, etc.  So my main purpose is still the music in OS9xx.  I just can't print anything in OS9 because my HP printer is too new, and they didn't support OS9 or even OS10.4.11, but I can use an Apple Printer driver w. my HP printer and it seems to be fine (in OSX)

     

    I am hoping Sonnet will help me out, though they are pretty much done with helping people with the old stuff.  I downloaded what they have, but still have the startup problem.  I misplaced my Sonnet Installer ID and I will bet it is the one with the Startup X manager and other enabling fixes on it.  I must have used it at some time.

     

    Thanks again for the suggestion.  I am going to look in my older folders for that startup function.  I kept about 3 other past system folders in different locations in case I want to look for something, like this.

     

    M

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 27, 2015 8:03 PM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 27, 2015 8:03 PM in response to mdmcxyz

    This may be my last update.  I put in a different motherboard.  I started with the stripped down version, no cards.  Got the startup sound right away, and also when I switched to OSX.  Also, the "screen problem" would happen, but for only a second, then would continue booting.  So this is a huge improvement.  I added my USB/fw card, and ATA 133 card +2 drives.  Also, I started searching through my various discs and found the Sonnet Installer program, which installed a sonnet processor Enabler program within OS9 system folder.  I had several Sonnet processor extensions, so I stuck with the most recent.Oh, I forgot.  I checked the firmware, it was up to date (4.2.8fl).  I used the original processor to install all the Sonnet items:  enabler program, processor upgrade, and in OSX  the firmware upgrade and Sonnet cache.  Once it was all in, etc. and seeming to run ok, I put the 1.2mhz processor back in.  All seemed to be okay.  I went back and forth between OSX and OS9.2.2. Still had the screen problem but it was fast, and continued to boot up.

    So I think the motherboard has helped minimize the switch-over, and probably the Sonnet Enabler program I installed with the installer program I found.

     

    Something weird I forgot about.  When in OSX my newer HP printer(that doesn't support OS10.4) connects to my G4, and, using an Apple Color Stylewriter driver, I can print from it.  However, when I switch to OS9, I have no driver, AND the printer causes the program to freeze if I have my A/B selector set to  my G4 (I share w. my PC laptop via Printer selector switch).  If my printer is selected to connect with my G4, my computer freezes on bootup.  A possible AHA.....After each switchover, and/or problem, the startup in OS9 got a little worse each time.

     

    I started it up again and......got the dreaded grey screen with grid.  All hopes dashed.  I tried it several times.  I double checked to make sure the printer was not selected to connect.  I did some errands and came back to it. I waited awhile longer, started it again, and it limped back to full bootup.

     

    I don't really know what happened or why. It's possible the video card does something.  I wiggled it around to make sure it was seating properly.  I may get a used video card on Ebay to try it.

     

    So, in summary so far: 

    1. the different motherboard helped a lot.  The screen goes off and on about 3-4 times, but eventually boots up pretty fast. 

    2.  I found the Sonnet Installer and installed the Sonnet Enabler, and know that I have the most up to date processor extension

    3.  I have the updated firmware patch from Sonnet and Sonnet cache in

    4.  It seems the more I switch back and forth from OSX to OS9 worsens the rebooting in OS9, but it seems to move through it faster.

    5. I have to make sure that my printer is NOT selected to connect to the G4 if I boot in OS9.  It could be causing problems in the bootup process.

    6.  I just finished wiping my OS9 hd clean, restoring from the image I made w. my portable hd in OS10.4.11, and it restored smooth, and when I started from the hd, the boot up was clean, no screen going on and off or distorting, so, I know that when the image is fresh and only in OS9, it acts like a normal G4 w. OS9.  Back in OS9 I did some other small updates to my music software, made sure it all worked fine, then made another new image via the same method, so now I think I have the cleanest possible restore image of my OS9 hd.

    7.  I also have my main hd with OS10.4.11 and OS9.2.2 together-as Classic, though I rarely if ever use Classic.

    8.  So, after all  this week+ of diagnoses, I have new Ram, 2 new hd's+ATA133 Sonnet Card, I got clear on what Sonnet firmware, Enabler programs, processor extensions, and caches are in there(Sonnet hasn't replied to my requests for any missing installers other than what is on the website), I have made up to date restore images, all clean, so that if it gets too bad, I can just Restore.  I keep all my files on separate drives from any drive that has my system software.  It saves so many hassles, and keeps the system software isolated.  Here are the hd's I have connected:  Mac Main HD-40G, Audio files hd-100G, OS922 hd-100G, Blank hd for more files-250G, two fw hd's- 60 G and 250G.  I can have all these connected and all works fine.

     

    So, until I find a new break through or hear from Sonnet, I plan to stay primarily in OS9 w. my G4 for music, and only go into OSX when necessary.  It it gets to freakin' bad, I will just Restore a new image and continue.

     

    Thank you Glenn and BD for the feedback, suggestions, and just being willing to read and respond.  Many times a suggestion would remind me of something I did in the past, and I would go searching and find what I needed.  I can continue with my music sequencing and Notation software, and print out, which is what I keep it all for.  Browser surfing, email, Quicken, etc. is all done on my laptop PC (also old, Vista Home, ugh, but it works). 

     

    If you have any other suggestions I will come back and check.  There is still the question of "why does my screen go on and off several times, distort, and then continue on booting in OS9, while booting up in OSX works just fine?  Maybe switching back from the OSX architecture back to the PowerPC architecture makes the board, processor do weird things.

     

    Thanks again for your help, it has helped me quite a lot.

     

    Michael

  • by BDAqua,

    BDAqua BDAqua Jun 28, 2015 10:14 AM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 10 (123,501 points)
    Jun 28, 2015 10:14 AM in response to mdmcxyz

    Excellent work Michael.

     

    Can you Print to PDF in OS9, then later print that in OSX?

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jun 28, 2015 7:53 PM in response to BDAqua
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 28, 2015 7:53 PM in response to BDAqua

    I don't really do anything that requires printing in OS9.  I just have to make sure that I don't have my printer selected for my G4 when I boot in OS9.

    When I write/arrange music in Performer, I can save it as a midi file, then import it into my Finale in OSX.  Most things that would be written up are done on my PC in Office.

     

    I also have Office 01 for Mac I can reinstall in OS9 if I have to.

     

    I've never really had to save anything in PDF form while in OS9.  I do in OSX, though, such as finished music manuscript.

     

    That's something for me to look into.

     

    Thanks again,

     

    Michael

  • by BDAqua,

    BDAqua BDAqua Jun 29, 2015 9:52 AM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 10 (123,501 points)
    Jun 29, 2015 9:52 AM in response to mdmcxyz

     

    Depending which App, Printer Driver & what you have chosen on the red arrow...

    Print2PDF.gif

  • by THX1136,

    THX1136 THX1136 Jul 1, 2015 7:18 AM in response to mdmcxyz
    Level 1 (4 points)
    iPad
    Jul 1, 2015 7:18 AM in response to mdmcxyz

    This may be way out in left field, but have you tried running Applejack in SUM (single user mode) when you go to 10.4 after being in 9.2? I have a G4 MDD Dual Boot and when I switch often from 10.4 to 9.2 I used to have issues. If I run Applejack, the problem is remedied until I switch back and forth. I've gotten to the point I routinely run AJ after I've switched from 10.4 to 9.2 and back. Not being familiar with your particular Mac, I don't know if this is worth trying - or if it even can be tried with your Mac.

  • by mdmcxyz,

    mdmcxyz mdmcxyz Jul 1, 2015 11:39 AM in response to THX1136
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 1, 2015 11:39 AM in response to THX1136

    Thanks THX for the suggestion.  I will look into that.  In the past I used Disk Warrior for OSX problems.  I don't really have problems when changing from OS9 to OSX,  the problem is when I change from OSX to OS9.  The bootup process in OS9 appears to deteriorate over time, but OSX always seems to work.  At least I have clean restores on another portable hd I can start over with when I get fed up.

    M

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