Using external MIDI instruments - oy!

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Level 2

161 points

Using external MIDI instruments - oy!

Folks -

I use Logic primarily for audio, but recently started messing with more MIDI content.

As such, I imported a MIDI track I (well - 'Band in the Box') had written, and copied that content to a track that was setup for an external synth. In this case, a Kurzweil PC3K7. Here's where I started becoming perplexed.

First I created an external MIDI track for the Kurz. It was set to the PC3K's USB MIDI port, inputs 29&30 (audio in from the Kurz), and outputs 1&2 from Logic.
The track played great yesterday, and I thought I had a winner.
Today, the kurz was on a different patch - ugh. No matter - I'll just change that patch. Uh - WHERE? I didn't see anything in the track inspector that would allow me to do this!
Next I realize that I really have no control over Volume and Pan for the track. I fired up a MIDI monitor, and sure enough, no Volume or Pan messages are being sent as I move the controllers in the Logic mixer! Argh!
Lastly - I realize that I can't see anywhere where inputs 29&30 are being routed back into the Logic mixer, so I don't even have control of the returning audio.

The only thing I can think of to do is to create yet another audio input track with inputs 29&30, and capture the audio and print it to disk. This will allow pan/vol control but little else.

Surely there has got to be a way to manipulate a simple external synth, right?

Thanks!

Posted on Jun 28, 2015 4:23 PM

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Answer 1

Pancenter

Level 6

14,644 points

Jun 28, 2015 4:55 PM in response to Pete_in_FL

Post a screen shot of the arrange page with your external MIDI track selected.

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Answer 2

Pancenter

Level 6

14,644 points

Jun 28, 2015 6:18 PM in response to Pete_in_FL

Also, what is your audio interface?

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Answer 3

Pete_in_FL Author

Level 2

161 points

Jun 28, 2015 8:36 PM in response to Pancenter

Here's a screen shot. The audio interface is a pair of RME-Fireface 800's and an AXE-FX-II. The MIDI interfaces vary - in this case the MIDI is being controlled by a USB link to the Kurzweil PC3K7.

Thanks!

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Answer 4

Pancenter

Level 6

14,644 points

Jun 28, 2015 9:26 PM in response to Pete_in_FL

You have an audio track selected... Your external MIDI track will have the program change, MIDI panning and volume.

That why I asked for an External MIDI Track to be selected. I don't need the mixer, just the arrange with the Kurz external MIDI track you recorded.

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Answer 5

Pete_in_FL Author

Level 2

161 points

Jun 29, 2015 3:59 PM in response to Pancenter

Weird - I tried to reply earlier, but got a unauthorized message, and an odd user name...

Anyway, I don't see a MIDI track anywhere - where should I be looking? Also, note that the content of that track is MIDI (blue region starting at beat 9). Also, doesn't the green track color at the bottom infer that it's a MIDI track? As you can see, I'm a little lost here.

Thanks!

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Answer 6

Jun 29, 2015 6:09 PM in response to Pete_in_FL

As you are using LPX it's probably better to use the External Instrument Plugin option......... which puts the midi data and audio output of your Synth on a single track...

A quick'ish Tutorial can be found here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_L5DUBE3AQ

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Answer 7

Pete_in_FL Author

Level 2

161 points

Jun 29, 2015 7:08 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

Thanks - the pointer to the video bears out my own research. In effect:

Specifying the INPUT(S) when creating an EXTERNAL INSTRUMENT track just gives you a an audio signal TO MONITOR... not record per se. Yes - I imagine it would be collected into a BOUNCE, as that captures all that goes to the Stereo Out (or whichever) buss.
If you want to capture the actual audio, you still need to setup an AUDIO TRACK to grab it (I call it a foldback track).
Short of making edits in the EVENT LIST, there is no way to specify Volume, PAN, etc. - minor bummer

I think it was poor implementation to leave those last MIDI parameters out of the inspector, and leads one to question whether it's a MIDI track or not. PAN CENTER's question back to me had me second guessing my thinking/eyesight.

Wholly confusing from my perspective. On the contrary, I found that integrating external processors very intuitive (I use a Lexicon PCM 90 and a DBX 166 compressor).

Thank you all for the help.

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Answer 8

Jun 29, 2015 7:55 PM in response to Pete_in_FL

Pete,

While I generally agree with your comments, you do have to take a couple of things into consideration...

1) When working with external FX processors for example, you are typically only working with one medium... Audio... When working with an external Midi instrument, you are working with two mediums.. Midi & Audio which adds to the complexity... You can always treat the midi instrument as a non midi device and just send/receive audio from it while playing live... as you would with an FX/Audio processor.. I find I sometimes record live this way when i want to get a proper 'live' feel to my recorded performance... where mistakes/timing errors etc are a part of that feel..

2) Midi Pan, Volume etc is sent to your device via Midi CCs.. which you can record/assign to a midi controller... and record as automation... or by using the Step Editor to manually draw CC controllers... to be sent to your mdii device... or you can use Audio Pan Vol etc.. via the Audio track you create to record the output of your External instrument... again, via automation. Personally I tend to use the Step editor for overall CC work and midi controllers for on the fly/real time creative changes...

Cheers..

Nigel

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