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Play Count Updating and Smart Playlists

I'll post here what I'm seeing as far as the behavior of Apple Music with respect to updating play history with Apple Music. I was able to discern a lot about how iTunes Match worked thanks to folks here, and hoping to do the same again. Those of us who rely on smart playlists will really want to know if and how play count, ratings, and last played history updates between devices. Here's what I've found so far:

Cross posted.


Right now I'm seeing that rating a song in iTunes from a desktop laptop instanteously syncs to iOS devices. Subsequently, this seems to trigger a library sync, also with respect to playcount and last played. My iOS devices are updated with the last played and updated playcount and my smart playlists are updated accordingly. This only happens instanteously when I rate a song. It will sync any play history as well. If I play songs in iTunes and don't rate anything, nothing syncs (yet). I don't know when it will sync, but presumably it will at some point (it did with iTunes Match, although I can't remember when). If I listen to a few songs, nothing shows as played on my other devices, but as soon as I rate a song, all the other playcounts immediately show up on the other devices. Important note, this has to be music played from the "My Music" section.


From iOS devices, it takes playing a song to completion after at least 12 hours has passes since the last sync. This seems to be exactly the same as iTunes Match behaved. At that point it will sync all playcounts from the device since the last sync. So, plays don't sync to the cloud immediately, but they sync eventually. Once that sync happens, all other devices will show the updated library.


I am seeing this hold true for songs played through the "Connect" and "For You" sections on the iOS device. I played a suggested playlist and the songs in the playlist that are also in my library show up in my recently played smart playlist on the device. Eventually, when the next cloud sync happens, I believe those playcounts will be synced to the cloud library and will be reflected on all other devices.


However, I'm not seeing this hold true for songs played through the "Connect" and "For You" sections in iTunes on my laptop, only songs from "My Music," eve. I played the same suggested playlist on my laptop and the songs in the playlist that are also in my library do not show up in my recently played smart playlist on iTunes (and are of course subsequently not pushing instantaneously to my iOS devices). Since my local library isn't show those songs as played, I don't believe they will ever show up in the cloud library or to other devices, but time will tell.


I'm not seeing ANY playcounts being logged for any songs listened to that haven't been added to my library from any device. This is a bummer. I was hoping the service would keep track of ratings and playcounts for any song, whether I've added it to my library or not. That way, I could rate songs and have a smart playlist that will pull any song i've ever rated and I don't have to clutter my library for just that one song. It would also keep from making a "favorite" song a 2 step process to get in a playlist. Right now, you have to add a song to your library and rate it or add it to a playlist. You can't even rate or add a song to a playlist in iTunes without adding it to your library first (which explains why you can do it in the Music app on an iOS device but nothing actually happens). On most other services, such as Google Play All Access, you can just "like" (star, thumbs up, whatever) and it will show up in the starred/thumbs up list whether you've made it a part of your library or not. It makes it easy to keep track of songs you liked and go back and listen to them later without the clunkiness of multiple taps. If Apple were to make APple Music work in this way, you could ultimately like a song from the lockscreen and it would show up in a playlist (either a smart playlist you create, or an auto-playlist Apple would create, like is done on Google Play All Access and Spotify).

iPhone 6 Plus, iOS 8.4

Posted on Jul 1, 2015 12:50 PM

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12 replies

Jul 14, 2015 3:12 PM in response to crankerchick

I like to base my "best of" lists on playcounts. It would be nice if plays on my iPhone, Macbook, Mac Pro, iMac, etc all synchronized. I listened to an album today at work on my Mac Pro but the play count didn't change when I look at that album on my iMac at home. So maybe I can't use play counts from iTunes for my "best of" lists...so I'll use last.fm. Fine for plays from a Mac, but there is no way to scrobble plays from iPhone/iPad. Meh. Apple needs to put a lot of energy into Apple Music so that it feels less disjointed and haphazard like iCloud does already.

Jul 14, 2015 5:30 PM in response to Razorhog

I have found that play counts from iTunes on a desktop/laptop update. If my memory serves me correctly, iTunes Match it happened after a song play, but regardless, it's not working that way now. I'm not sure what triggers a sync on the desktop/laptop now but I know you can force it by doing something that does update immediately, like modifying a playlist or assigning a rating. I presume using the File > Library > Update iCloud Library would force it to update.


Your iOS devices work the way it worked on iTunes Match, which I describe in the long posts before this one. Basically, you will start playing a song and it will log to the cloud library that song was played and also log any songs that were played since the last sync, provided some minimum amount of time has elapsed, which seems to be 12 hours. Once 12 hours has elapsed, the next time you play a song from that iOS device to completion, it will sync the play counts of songs since the last sync.


So this morning on my ride into work at 7am, once the first song I played finished playing, it updated the play counts to the iCloud library for all the songs I listened to on my ride home yesterday. If you watch the status bar next to your network connection, you'll see data traffic happening as soon as the song finishes. When I got into I work I could see updated play stats in my iTunes library on my laptop for all the songs listened to on my iPhone yesterday evening and the very first song I listened to when I got in the car this morning. All of the songs after that one and all the ones I listened to on my ride home at 5p are not showing as played in iTunes library on my laptop because my phones hasn't issued another update (because 12 hours hasn't passed yet). If I play a song right now, now that 12 hours has passed since the last sync, once it complete, I'll see an update happen from the iPhone and then when I update my iCloud library on my laptop, I'll see the play counts update on my laptop. I don't normally play songs from my iPhone in the evening, so instead, tomorrow morning when I get in the car and play a song to completion, that's when I'll see the iPhone update play counts and then be able to refresh my iCloud library on my laptop and see the updates.


Note that the phone locally always contains the updated play counts for anything played locally, it's just this information doesn't get synced back to the iCloud library after every play.


It is a bit frustrating that the iOS device syncing isn't instantaneous. I guess I've just learned to accept it in the last year since it's been "working" as designed. I know that when I get to work that my smart playlists are out of sync with my phone with respect to any songs I played on the phone on the ride to work. I also haven't figured out how to make it force an update from an iOS device. Assigning a rating or adding a song to a playlist doesn't seem to force it to happen, as it does in iTunes.


You have to think about it as an iCloud library on a server somewhere and your local library on your device that syncs up with the iCloud library according to some sequence of events that is undocumented by Apple, but roughly reverse engineered as you can see from my descriptions.

Jul 17, 2015 6:02 PM in response to crankerchick

Hello,


Really GOOD post. Thanks for taking the time to document your finding and experiencing with synching of smart playlists.


I do agree it is unfortunate that you first have to add an album or track to My Music before it will capture the play info. I've been playing around with the order that my album tracks get saved to some of my smart playlists and found some inconsistencies. Also had an issue with I believe my Mac iTunes client play queue preventing last play data and count updates from recording properly in my smart playlist.


Not the most intuitive process....


Thanks, Phil

Aug 5, 2015 9:11 AM in response to Razorhog

I have the same problem with smart lists not updating correctly. I think ( but have not proved) that it often occurs where the songs title starts with a number or special character. In other words songtitle_01 will update a play count when played on an Iphone but not 01_songtitle. It is only a theory, but I can see that looking back in my recently played list in itunes on my PC that there are no songs that start with a number and I KNOW that I have heard some today!

Aug 6, 2015 8:45 AM in response to vistisenb

As a follow up to my previous post I can now confirm that songs with a song title that start with a number do NOT get their play count or last play date updated when they are listened to on an iphone, but do when they are listened to on itunes. I have made a note of six song that I heard today and the point in time that I heard them , After synchronizing my iphone to itunes and then listing the song by last listened date I can find the holes in the sequence where I can see that the lengths of songs just before the missing song does not fit the time gap between that and the next song. Where can I post this as an actual bug report?

Aug 6, 2015 9:20 AM in response to vistisenb

vistisenb wrote:


As a follow up to my previous post I can now confirm that songs with a song title that start with a number do NOT get their play count or last play date updated when they are listened to on an iphone, but do when they are listened to on itunes. I have made a note of six song that I heard today and the point in time that I heard them , After synchronizing my iphone to itunes and then listing the song by last listened date I can find the holes in the sequence where I can see that the lengths of songs just before the missing song does not fit the time gap between that and the next song. Where can I post this as an actual bug report?

This is a great find! Here's where to send feedback:


https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

Aug 6, 2015 10:39 AM in response to libertino85

libertino85 wrote:


I wonder if the delay in play count has anything to do with royalties...?


Perhaps it takes a day or so for calculations???

I Don't think royalties are at play here. The delay in updates from iOS devices predates Apple Music. When iTunes Match first launched, uodates from iOS devices was shady at best. When it worked, it would give 2 play counts for every one play. It took a while for it to even work with the 12 hour delay we see now. For me, the updating is working exactly as it worked with Match as designed.


THe the only thing that makes sense to me is Apple not wanting mobile devices pinging servers every 3-4 minutes. A batch sync was more desirable.

Play Count Updating and Smart Playlists

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