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Graham Thomsen
Level 1 (10 points)

Q: Shake Output Back into Final Cut Pro Stutters

Hi,

New to Shake 4.1 but I followed the Captain's Tutorials and got what I expected out of the tool. Problem is when it appears back in FCP (following the Captain's Advice) the imported *.mov file seems to stutter like I should have rendered it. I was following the Smooth Cam Tutorial and the *.mov file I got on my desk top was awesome when played in QT Player. Its just within FCP 5.1 its wrong. I looked at the render options but none seemed to even engage.

Using a Sony HDR-H1C1E PAL 1080i50 Camcorder with HDV Output with original smoothing done using a handheld SteadiCam Merlin. All Material is shot 1080i50 so I am not mixing footage.

iMac Intel Dual Core   Mac OS X (10.4.8)   2 GB Ram, 250 GB Disk, 128MB VRAM x1600 ATI

iMac Intel Dual Core   Mac OS X (10.4.8)   2 GB Ram, 250 GB Disk, 128MB VRAM x1600 ATI

Posted on Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM

by Patrick Sheffield,Solvedanswer
Patrick Sheffield Patrick Sheffield
Level 7 (29,175 points)
A:
I'd wager it's the encoding of the HDV - you might try changing the options in FileOut to use AIC instead - you'll have to render in your timeline, but FCP probably handles it better...

Patrick

Posted on Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM

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Graham Thomsen

Q: Shake Output Back into Final Cut Pro Stutters

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  • by Inconceivable,

    Inconceivable Inconceivable Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    Level 3 (640 points)
    Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    Hi Graham,
    I'd love to chat about the Merlin sometime as I'm in the market for one before Spring. But, that's not the reason for your post

    I have a Sony A1 (similar to yours) and this makes me wonder what format you're working with in FCP/Shake(DV or AIC or...?). QT may play well whereas FCP may not. I have never taken a converted HDV sequence into Shake as I always in-cam downconvert first.

    I'm sure Capt'n will be along shortly but have you exported the final sequence out of FCP yet? I wonder how that looked.

  • by Patrick Sheffield,Solvedanswer

    Patrick Sheffield Patrick Sheffield Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    Level 7 (29,175 points)
    Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    I'd wager it's the encoding of the HDV - you might try changing the options in FileOut to use AIC instead - you'll have to render in your timeline, but FCP probably handles it better...

    Patrick

  • by Graham Thomsen,

    Graham Thomsen Graham Thomsen Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM in response to Patrick Sheffield
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Dec 23, 2010 12:47 PM in response to Patrick Sheffield
    Patrick,

    Thanks for the reply. I will give your idea a shot. I am editing Native HDV in FCP 5.1 and I then export it via "Send to Shake". Wondering if the Interlace is causing any issues. The "de-Interlace" option in Shake is off. Not sure Shake supports native HDV so perhaps FCP is transcoding on export. Anyway....rendering is fine by me but FCP doesn't even let me try when I import the *.mov file. Perhaps AIC will force the issue. Just intuitively seems wrong that a quicktime movie plays well outside FCP and stutters when imported.

    Graham

  • by Inconceivable,Helpful

    Inconceivable Inconceivable Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    Level 3 (640 points)
    Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    AFAIK, Shake does not do HDV. The term is not in the index of the manual though when my copy arrived I was able to find a reference to it somewhere in the manual. Unfortunately I can't find the page at the moment.

    Also, I get a little stuttering when I bring in some native HDV into FCP.

    Not sure how much help it will be but you might check Bonsai's tute here for dealing with HDV:

    http://www3.telus.net/bonsai

  • by Graham Thomsen,

    Graham Thomsen Graham Thomsen Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Inconceivable
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Inconceivable
    You are right that Shake 4.1 doesn't support HDV..or any Long GOP format for that matter..... Page 161 Volume I: The Interface. However, the FCP 5.1.2 export seems to play some Compressor tricks to get it into Shake 4.1 because it works.

    I took Patrick's earlier idea of running out a different format except I used Apple Intermediate Codec as opposed to the default 1080i50 setting, which I imagine Shake gleaned from the FCP "send to" voodoo. The result was that I had two version of the same clip. The first default version (small) and the second Codec Version which was alot larger. Sucking these into FCP I got the same stutter as before on the default but less on the Codec version (I imagine because it is optimized for playback). Anyway...the good news was that the Codec version allowed rendering which eliminated the stutter altogether. I can still colour correct and scale to make the Shake blackbox go away. So..in short I think I can get there from here. Still not quite grasping why the Quicktime Player runs it smoothly but FCP doesn't. Not really doing alot more than a video line with a simple AIFF running stereo below. No Effects. Native HDV imported from my Sony runs clean...Anyway I will tie off this thread because my problem is solved.

    By Way of loose ends...the Merlin works as promised but requires ALOT of practice. Solid construction, good docs, and a video which was very helpful. I just need to get more hands on time with it to get the technique down. My recent shots still had some annoying angular issues which Shake helps with. More me than Merlin I am sure. The Web Demo vids were impressive and I think actually achievable. Best of luck...it requires some getting use to....just like the docs clearly warn.

    Thanks to You and Patrick...

    iMac Intel Dual Core   Mac OS X (10.4.8)   2 GB Ram, 250 GB Disk, 128MB VRAM x1600 ATI

  • by Inconceivable,

    Inconceivable Inconceivable Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    Level 3 (640 points)
    Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    Hi Graham,
    Glad you got your footage sorted out and thanks for the info regarding the Merlin. I'm following a thread about it on dvinfo.net as well.
    Cheers.

  • by Patrick Sheffield,Helpful

    Patrick Sheffield Patrick Sheffield Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    Level 7 (29,175 points)
    Dec 23, 2010 12:48 PM in response to Graham Thomsen
    I believe the reason it stutters in FCP is the mix/mash of the GOP structure - it's going from the original timeline material to the shake encoded, back to the original timeline. QT Player is only dealing with the new shake material.

    When you bring in the AIC version, it requires a render which then causes FCP to conform it to the GOP of the sequence... Just a guess.

    As an FYI - Please click on the or buttons over posts as appropriate...

    (you need to be logged in to see the buttons)...

    Patrick