Any reason to not use "External Instrument" plugin with instruments?

As a beginner, I had thought that electronic hardware instruments did not put out MIDI data, that all you would capture in Logic, or any DAW, would be the audio (the waveform), in contrast to software instruments where your notes are wonderfully transcribed to Score/Piano Roll, you can edit the notes/velocity/rhythm afterward, quantize, etc.


Only just now did I discover by chance the "External Instrument" plugin. I was using it to control a hardware synthesizer with a larger keyboard controller. Then I noticed that by loading this plugin it allows you to treat hardware instruments (at least the ones that put out MIDI data through USB, I assume) just like a software instruments, gaining all the massive workflow benefits you'd normally get from a VST.


1) So I'm wondering for what reasons would you not record a hardware instrument (that outputs MIDI through USB) on a Software Instrument track with the "External Instrument" plugin loaded, instead of an Audio track? I assume there are some disadvantages I'm not aware of.

2) I think I just noticed a disadvantage. It seems only MIDI data is recorded, no waveform. The instrument recorded with "External Instrument" plugin in use has to be connected for there to be sound. Can I have both MIDI data and audio?


Are there any other things I should know about usage of this "External Instrument" plugin?


Thanks for any insight.

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch,Early 2015), OS X Yosemite (10.10.3)

Posted on Jul 14, 2015 4:17 AM

Reply
7 replies

Jul 14, 2015 8:57 AM in response to Libertine Lush

Libertine, in order to keep the confusion to a minimum, you have to be clear about the following connections found on a hardware device:


  • MIDI Output
  • MIDI Input
  • Audio Output


MIDI Output

A hardware device that has a MIDI Output (USB or 5-pin DIN connector) is considered a "MIDI Controller". This is usually a MIDI Keyboard that you use to record your MIDI parts in your DAW. A MIDI Keyboard that includes its own sound source has also a MIDI Input.


MIDI Input

A hardware device that contains a MIDI sound module (generates sound) has to have a MIDI Input. A MIDI signal is connected to this MIDI Input in order to "play" the sound module (create an audio signal out of MIDI signals)


Audio Output

A hardware device that functions as a MIDI sound module has to have an Audio Output that you connect to a Mixer in order to hear/record its generated sounds.



Now lets look at MIDI Instrument Channel Strip in Logic:


Software Instrument Plugin

Usually, you load a Software Instrument at the top of the Software Instrument Channel Strip. This is a MIDI Sound Module that receives its MIDI Input from your (External) MIDI Controller and from the MIDI Region on its Track Lane. Its Audio Output (the sound it produces) is sent along its Channel Strip to process that audio signal.


External Instrument Plugin:

This plugin works as a routing mechanism to do two things.

  1. The incoming MIDI signal on that Channel Strip (from the external MIDI Controller or MIDI Region) is sent out of Logic through your MIDI Interface (that you define) and that signal, you must connect to the MIDI Input of your external hardware MIDI sound module.
  2. The Audio Output of that hardware device has to be connected to an audio in on your audio interface (i.e. input 3/4). If you select that input on the External Instrument Plugin, then that audio signal is routed to the top of its Channel Strip and runs through the rest of the Channel Strip.


Real-time audio v.s recorded audio

This is one important aspect you have to keep in mind with all the MIDI/Audio routing. A Software Instrument Track in Logic only records MIDI signals (MIDI Regions) and not audio signals (Audio Regions). When you play your MIDI, those signals are sent to the Software Instruments and External Instruments in your Project and their audio signal plays "live" in real-time. When you want to record those audio signals, then you have to route them, for example, to an Audio Track. This might be a good idea for External Instruments, when you later work on a Project and can't reproduce the exact sound on the hardware device. Also, External Instruments are not included when using Real-time bounce.


As you can see, the topic is a little bit more complex. Here is an expert from my book "Logic Pro X - The Details" where I explain all that with lots of graphics and diagrams.


User uploaded file






Hope that helps


Edgar Rothermich - LogicProGEM.com

(Author of the "Graphically Enhanced Manuals")

http://DingDingMusic.com/Manuals/

'I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.'

Jul 14, 2015 5:21 PM in response to EdgarRothermich

Thank you Edgar for such a comprehensive reply. It took me a while--slow reading and several re-readings--but I understand all of your post now.


To address your first point, the connections I'm using: hardware synthesizer is connected to MacBook Pro via USB and to my audio interface via its TS inputs, keyboard controller is connected via USB as well.


Could you tell me how I would capture the actual audio signal of a track recorded by the External Instrument Plugin? You mentioned routing the track to an audio track. I'm unfamiliar with that.


So since you can "convert" the recorded MIDI signal into an audio signal, it's even harder now for me to understand why someone wouldn't always record a hardware instrument that outputs MIDI data to a External Instrument track instead of an audio track. Are there any reasons not to?


Lastly, I just noticed that when I adjust the effects parameters on my hardware synthesizer as it's being recorded to an External Instrument track the effects tweaking aren't actually captured. I adjusted the frequency cutoff filter, from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock (knob position), while recording and the entire recorded region was recorded as if the knob was at 3 o'clock the whole time. Is this another disadvantage of External Instrument recording?: it can't collect MIDI signals of real time effects parameter tweaking?


Thank you.

Jul 15, 2015 8:45 AM in response to Libertine Lush

Could you tell me how I would capture the actual audio signal of a track recorded by the External Instrument Plugin? You mentioned routing the track to an audio track. I'm unfamiliar with that.



On the Output Button of your Instrument Channel Channel Strip, select a Bus (i.e. Bus 1) instead of the Stereo Out and then create a new Audio Track, where you select that same Bus (i.e Bus 1) as the Input. Now the signal on the Instrument Channel Strip is routed directly to that Audio Track where you can record it as an audio signal.


User uploaded file


So since you can "convert" the recorded MIDI signal into an audio signal, it's even harder now for me to understand why someone wouldn't always record a hardware instrument that outputs MIDI data to a External Instrument track instead of an audio track. Are there any reasons not to?


Working with a "live" instrument (software or hardware) lets you change the MIDI notes (what it is playing) at any time. Usually you record an Instrument Channel Strip to an Audio Track if you know that you don't need to change it anymore. The benefit is that you avoid any issues with the instrumnet later on where it changes it sounds, you cannot load it, or you exchange your Project with another studio that doesn't have that device.


Lastly, I just noticed that when I adjust the effects parameters on my hardware synthesizer as it's being recorded to an External Instrument track the effects tweaking aren't actually captured. I adjusted the frequency cutoff filter, from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock (knob position), while recording and the entire recorded region was recorded as if the knob was at 3 o'clock the whole time. Is this another disadvantage of External Instrument recording?: it can't collect MIDI signals of real time effects parameter tweaking?


Thank you.



Logic "doesn't know" anything that you change on the external device, only what comes back as audio. You have to do it the other way around Send the MIDI message from Logic (i.e. COntinuous Control 74) to the external device, that controls a specific parameter. You can create that signal from inside Logic manually or send it from you keyboard controller if you can assign the appropriate CC to a knob or wheel. This works, of course, only if your external device supports that. Check your documentation.



Hope that helps


Edgar Rothermich - LogicProGEM.com

(Author of the "Graphically Enhanced Manuals")

http://DingDingMusic.com/Manuals/

'I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.'

Jul 16, 2015 12:17 AM in response to EdgarRothermich

On the Output Button of your Instrument Channel Channel Strip, select a Bus (i.e. Bus 1) instead of...


Thank you so much for those instructions. I got it to work! For a beginner, this feels like such huge progress, knowing how to do this.


Logic "doesn't know" anything that you change on the external device, only what comes back as audio. You have to do it the other way around Send the MIDI message from Logic (i.e. COntinuous Control 74) to the external device, that controls a specific parameter. You can create that signal from inside Logic manually or send it from you keyboard controller if you can assign the appropriate CC to a knob or wheel. This works, of course, only if your external device supports that. Check your documentation.


Do you mind explaining how you would create the "signal from inside Logic manually"?

As to the other alternative you mentioned, I think I got it to work, but I'd love confirmation if this behavior is normal. My synthesizer (Teenage Engineering's OP-1) has 4 knobs. Using a feature called "MIDI LFO," those 4 knobs become CC 1-4, able to receive MIDI from a keyboard controller. I can assign what parameters those 4 knobs will affect and I chose 4 parameters tied to an Effect. With this setup, I can use 4 knobs on my keyboard controller that I've assigned as CC 1-4 to tweak my chosen Effect's parameters. Now when I record in Logic, and do the knob tweaking on the controller, it is indeed captured by Logic. However, when I do the knob tweaking on my synthesizer, it is not captured by Logic. Is that how it should be or does that mean my synthesizer does not send out MIDI on its knobs, only its keys?

My synth's manual says it transmits MIDI over USB, but no further details.

Thank you again. I really appreciate all the info so far.

Jul 16, 2015 10:49 AM in response to Libertine Lush

Again, you have to be aware of the signal flow:


MIDI Controller:

MIDI Out: Your MIDI Keyboard (COntroller) is only sending the MIDI signal to Logic (assuming that it doesn't have any built-in sound module). MIDI Out of the Keyboard connected to the MIDI IN of your MIDI Interface that you use with Logic. In the case of USB, connect the USB of your Keyboard to your computer.


External Synthesizer:

  • MIDI IN: You are sending a MIDI signal to that device in order to "play" it. MIDI connection from Logic TO the Synthesizer. You don't generate any MIDI data on the Synthesizer itself, no MIDI signal going back to Logic. That's why any movement of any hardware controller on the synthesizer doesn't get recorded in Logic.
  • Audio Out: The Synthesizer has to send its audio signal back Logic so you hear it/record it.

Jul 16, 2015 8:25 PM in response to EdgarRothermich

That's a great explanation of the signal flow; it corrected an erroneous notion I had of how it flowed.



External Synthesizer:

MIDI IN: You are sending a MIDI signal to that device in order to "play" it. MIDI connection from Logic TO the Synthesizer. You don't generate any MIDI data on the Synthesizer itself, no MIDI signal going back to Logic. That's why any movement of any hardware controller on the synthesizer doesn't get recorded in Logic.


I understand that now, however, there remains a curiosity: I think my hardware synthesizer does in fact generate some MIDI data. As I shared in my previous post, none of the synth's knob tweaking is captured by Logic. Given your explanation, I comprehend why that is. However, it's keys transfer MIDI--when I record the synth by playing its keys, not the controller's, its notes are shown in the piano roll/score.


Why is it that the keys on my synth are transferring MIDI?


Thank you!

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Any reason to not use "External Instrument" plugin with instruments?

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