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Routing External Synth Audio to External Effects

I would like to, using Logic, route audio from an hardware synthesizer (Moog Sub 37) into the effects section of another hardware synth (Teenage Engineering OP-1), while recording the MIDI data.



I've figured how to do all the above, minus the MIDI portion, by simply connecting the output of the Moog into the input of the OP-1, and then recording it in Logic as an Audio Track. If I'd like to record the MIDI data too, I presume I would need to use the External Instrument plugin, which I'm new to.



I've included screenshots of how I have it set up at the moment, the result of some googling and guesswork, in case I have some portions right. The tracks set up: the one labeled "Sub 37 to OP-1 FX" is where I'm attempting to route the Moog signal to the OP-1 and the one labeled "OP-1" is where I'm guessing the audio should output with the effects, the end destination.



Info on my setup. Both of my synths are connected via USB to my Mac or powered USB hub. The Moog is connected to input 3 of my audio interface and the OP-1 to inputs 1 & 2 (as its effects are stereo).



Thank you for any assistance.



http://i.imgur.com/Jhd2O2F.png

http://i.imgur.com/PKjdn4S.png

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch,Early 2015), OS X Yosemite (10.10.3), null

Posted on Aug 1, 2015 4:57 AM

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23 replies

Aug 2, 2015 10:19 PM in response to BenB

You need your existing audio input, of course. Then create a second software instrument track and set it to your I/O midi interface. That should run directly from your Moog Sub 37.


I've tried a variety of parameters, and couldn't get it to work. Could explain in detail how to set it up?


Below are screenshots of what I have set up at the moment, if that makes it easier to explain/correct. To reiterate on my connections: OP-1 and Moog connected to laptop via USB. OP-1 output to audio interface's inputs 1 & 2; Moog's output to audio interface's input 3. Audio Interface's Output 1 & 2 are connected to my amplifier.


This is my Moog's channel strip and External Instrument plugin:

User uploaded file


This is the OP-1's channel strip and I/O plugin:

User uploaded file


Thank you!

Aug 9, 2015 5:57 AM in response to Libertine Lush

Libertine Lush wrote:


I would like to, using Logic, route audio from an hardware synthesizer (Moog Sub 37) into the effects section of another hardware synth (Teenage Engineering OP-1), while recording the MIDI data.



I've figured how to do all the above, minus the MIDI portion, by simply connecting the output of the Moog into the input of the OP-1, and then recording it in Logic as an Audio Track. If I'd like to record the MIDI data too, I presume I would need to use the External Instrument plugin, which I'm new to.



http://i.imgur.com/PKjdn4S.png[/img]


Lush Life...


Using only the above information, you're sending the audio of the Mood into the effects section of the OP-1 and recording the audio output, that's all god right?


You would like to record the MIDI data of the Moog, right?


What kind of MIDI connection does the Moog use? USB, 5-pin Din. Is Logic picking up a MIDI signal from the Moog?

All you have to do is create an external MIDI track and arm both it and the audio track and you can record both at the same time, or you can record the external MIDI track only and edit it to your hearts content, play it back on the Moog which is sending it's audio into the OP-1 and record the Audio out being triggered by the MIDI recording. Furthermore, if the OP-1 sends MIDI out you can manipulate the OP-1 effects in real-time and record the OP-1's MIDI output and tweak that as well.


I think you're making it more difficult than it need be... or else I'm reading it completely wrong, (a distinct possibility)

Aug 10, 2015 3:10 AM in response to Pancenter

I think you're making it more difficult than it need be...


I'm really new to all this, so that's very possible. I could be overlooking something obvious to veterans or maybe what I'm asking is not possible. So just to be clear, what I would like to be able to do: record all the MIDI of my Moog's audio being processed by the OP-1. The part where I'm not sure if I'm asking for something possible: when I'm manipulating the knobs (for the effects) on the OP-1, can that manipulation be captured as MIDI as well?


Using only the above information, you're sending the audio of the Mood into the effects section of the OP-1 and recording the audio output, that's all god right?


Yes, I can record the audio, not the MIDI as well, of the Moog being processed by the OP-1's effects.


What kind of MIDI connection does the Moog use? USB, 5-pin Din. Is Logic picking up a MIDI signal from the Moog?


The Moog sends MIDI over USB, so I'm only using the USB cable. I assume don't need to plug the traditional MIDI 5-pin as well. Yes, Logic is picking up MIDI from the Moog.


All you have to do is create an external MIDI track and arm both it and the audio track and you can record both at the same time...


Ah, okay. That's something I've never done or considered. Just tried it and it works--captured the MIDI and audio at the same time. However, the MIDI does not contain the OP-1 real effect manipulation. Should it?


or you can record the external MIDI track only and edit it to your hearts content, play it back on the Moog which is sending it's audio into the OP-1 and record the Audio out being triggered by the MIDI recording.


I don't understand this portion; I don't think I've done anything like the before. I have done this: record an external synth's MIDI, change it's output from Stereo to Bus 1, create new Audio Track with Bus 1 as the Input and then record, resulting in an audio track of the MIDI. Is that partly what you described? If not, could you explain how I would set that up?


When you say, "play it back on the Moog which is sending it's audio into the OP-1," and also for all of the options you mentioned so to be clear, what is the setup you have in mind? Is it this?: Moog and OP-1 USB to computer, Moog line out to OP-1 line in, OP-1 line out into audio interface. As I mention in my original post, that is what I used to record just the audio of the Moog processed by the OP-1; I used a different setup when trying to record the MIDI as well (mentioned at the bottom of my first post). In trying the record the MIDI as well, should I still be using the first setup?


Furthermore, if the OP-1 sends MIDI out you can manipulate the OP-1 effects in real-time and record the OP-1's MIDI output and tweak that as well.


Generally, do hardware synthesizers send MIDI on their tweakable parameters (pots/knobs/encoders/faders/etc)?


Thank you so much!

Aug 10, 2015 3:30 AM in response to Libertine Lush

Libertine Lush wrote:


I think you're making it more difficult than it need be...


I'm really new to all this, so that's very possible. I could be overlooking something obvious to veterans or maybe what I'm asking is not possible. So just to be clear, what I would like to be able to do: record all the MIDI of my Moog's audio being processed by the OP-1. The part where I'm not sure if I'm asking for something possible: when I'm manipulating the knobs (for the effects) on the OP-1, can that manipulation be captured as MIDI as well?




One thing at a time. Is the MIDI out of the OP-1 also connected to the computer?


Some synthesizers send out MIDI control data when the effects knobs are manipulated others don't that's entirely up to the OP-1's MIDI implementation. It may or may not have MIDI settings that allow it to send out data. The manual will say under MIDI Implementation.


You might want to do some reading about MIDI so you understand how it works, what it's capabilities are...etc. Different manufacturers incorporate as much or as little of the MIDI Spec into their instruments as they see fit. The MIDI spec allows 0 to 127 different types of controller. Controller 7 is Volume, Controller 10 is panning left <-> right, there are many undefined controllers that manufacturers can use for their own needs including control/effects knobs on synthesizers. Here's the first 19 controllers, the list goes up to 127.


Table 3: Control Changes and Mode Changes
(Status Bytes 176-191)
Control Number
(2nd Byte Value)
Control Function 3rd Byte Value
Decimal Binary Hex Value Used As
0 00000000 00 Bank Select 0-127 MSB
1 00000001 01 Modulation Wheel or Lever 0-127 MSB
2 00000010 02 Breath Controller 0-127 MSB
3 00000011 03 Undefined 0-127 MSB
4 00000100 04 Foot Controller 0-127 MSB
5 00000101 05 Portamento Time 0-127 MSB
6 00000110 06 Data Entry MSB 0-127 MSB
7 00000111 07 Channel Volume (formerly Main Volume) 0-127 MSB
8 00001000 08 Balance 0-127 MSB
9 00001001 09 Undefined 0-127 MSB
10 00001010 0A Pan 0-127 MSB
11 00001011 0B Expression Controller 0-127 MSB
12 00001100 0C Effect Control 1 0-127 MSB
13 00001101 0D Effect Control 2 0-127 MSB
14 00001110 0E Undefined 0-127 MSB
15 00001111 0F Undefined 0-127 MSB
16 00010000 10 General Purpose Controller 1 0-127 MSB
17 00010001 11 General Purpose Controller 2 0-127 MSB
18 00010010 12 General Purpose Controller 3 0-127 MSB
19 00010011 13 General Purpose Controller 4 0-127 MSB

Aug 10, 2015 3:51 AM in response to Pancenter

One thing at a time. Is the MIDI out of the OP-1 also connected to the computer?

Some synthesizers send out MIDI control data when the effects knobs are manipulated others don't that's entirely up to the OP-1's MIDI implementation. It may or may not have MIDI settings that allow it to send out data. The manual will say under MIDI Implementation.


The OP-1 doesn't have a MIDI Out, just MIDI over USB.


The manual doesn't specify if it sends MIDI over it's encoders. So I can still learn from this, could you address my questions assuming a hypothetical synth in place of the OP-1 that does send MIDI control data?


I have some rudimentary (I configured a CC setting to get my Expression Pedal to work properly) familiarity with MIDI and the MIDI table. Thanks for mentioning it.

Aug 10, 2015 4:02 AM in response to Libertine Lush

Libertine Lush wrote:


One thing at a time. Is the MIDI out of the OP-1 also connected to the computer?

Some synthesizers send out MIDI control data when the effects knobs are manipulated others don't that's entirely up to the OP-1's MIDI implementation. It may or may not have MIDI settings that allow it to send out data. The manual will say under MIDI Implementation.


The OP-1 doesn't have a MIDI Out, just MIDI over USB.


The manual doesn't specify if it sends MIDI over it's encoders. So I can still learn from this, could you address my questions assuming a hypothetical synth in place of the OP-1 that does send MIDI control data?


I have some rudimentary (I configured a CC setting to get my Expression Pedal to work properly) familiarity with MIDI and the MIDI table. Thanks for mentioning it.


The USB connection is just plain old MIDI In/Out, so yes, it does have a MIDI I/O.


Yes, you could record both the MIDI keyboard output of the Moog and the rotary encoder data of any controller that sends it.


So, plug the OP-1 USB cable into the computer, start Logic, set up an external MIDI track, hit record, twist some knobs and see if anything gets recorded.

Aug 10, 2015 4:06 AM in response to Pancenter

Using your setup... the way I would do this is by:


1. Setting it up to monitor the audio through the OP-1 like you've been doing.

2. Record the MIDI performance on the Moog.

3. Edit the MIDI performance to your liking.

4. Playback the MIDI Moog performance via MIDI and record the MIDI effects manipulation from the OP-1 (if possible), edit to taste.

5. When finished, playback the MIDI tracks and record the audio output.

Aug 10, 2015 4:58 PM in response to Pancenter

Yes, you could record both the MIDI keyboard output of the Moog and the rotary encoder data of any controller that sends it.


So, plug the OP-1 USB cable into the computer, start Logic, set up an external MIDI track, hit record, twist some knobs and see if anything gets recorded.


Just tested it as you suggested and found that the OP-1 does not send MIDI on its encoders--they do receive MIDI though. Imagining a different piece of gear in place of the OP-1, another synth with effects or an effects box, if I were to "record both the MIDI keyboard output of the Moog and the rotary encoder data of any controller that sends it," the MIDI data of both the Moog keyboard output and effects tweaking would be merged in a single track, the Moog's track?


1. Setting it up to monitor the audio through the OP-1 like you've been doing.


I've used 2 different setups in my explanations above. Where I mention I was able to record only the Moog's audio, my setup is: Moog and OP-1 USB to computer, Moog line out to OP-1 line in, OP-1 line out into audio interface. The subsequent setup I used that is reflected in the 2 different sets of screenshots/approaches is: Both of my synths are connected via USB to my Mac or powered USB hub; the Moog is connected to input 3 of my audio interface and the OP-1 to inputs 1 & 2. Which one are you referring to? I'm assuming the former.


Based on some googling, I was under the impression, or maybe I was explicitly told this, that I could, using my latter setup along with some combination of Send/Bus configurations and Logic's I/O plugin achieve the same as using the former setup. So using Logic to make the routing connections rather than plugging the Moog output directly into the OP-1 (or any other device with MIDI send on its controls). Is that not possible?


Thank you again.

Aug 10, 2015 8:44 PM in response to Libertine Lush

Ok, simplify. You second scenario with the instruments plugged into the interface.


Start with a stereo audio track, add only the I/O plugin as the first Insert.


The Output is going to be the Output of the OP-1 (1-2) the Input is going to be 3-4 which is the output of the Moog. (The Moog is mono out?)

Record Enable the Track, make sure Software Monitoring in Logic's Preferences/Audio is enabled.

(You may have to reflect the Input selection 3-4 on the channel strip not sure about that)

Play the Moog, you should hear the affected audio.


yes, no?

Aug 11, 2015 12:28 AM in response to Libertine Lush

Ok, that's not going to work, I don't use this Logic feature but I understand the "Logic" of it however, my setup uses external monitoring and is not easy for me to redo for testing.


Wait... of course it's not going to work, you need to have the Effects Input of the OP-1 patched into an output bus. (Understand?)

What is your audio interface....exactly.


I still think the best way to do it is the way I described.

Aug 11, 2015 12:34 AM in response to Pancenter

Wait... of course it's not going to work, you need to have the Effects Input of the OP-1 patched into an output bus. (Understand?)

What is your audio interface....exactly.


Hmm, thinking... No, I don't understand. 😝


I use Native Instruments' Komplete Audio 6: http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/audio-interfaces/komplete -audio-6-migrated/included-software/

Aug 11, 2015 3:29 AM in response to Libertine Lush

In you first setup you ran the line out of the Moog into the effects input on the OP-1 correct?


In your second setup:

All you have patched into the interface are outputs of both units, the USB ports are MIDI only, not audio.

How do you propose to get the Moog audio out into the OP-1 effects unit?

The effects IN of the OP-1 will need to be patched into a corresponding set of outputs on the interface. (1-2)

Then the I/O plugin on an audio track will only reference the OP-1's Effects IN and the OP-1's Output. So the Moog's sound will pass thought the OP-1 effects just like any other effects unit you would patch in.


Read this.


https://documentation.apple.com/en/logicstudio/effects/index.html#chapter=14%26s ection=3%26tasks=true

Routing External Synth Audio to External Effects

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