Macintosh Classic won't boot (disk with question mark, internal HD not recognized).

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Macintosh Classic won't boot (disk with question mark, internal HD not recognized).

Hi there, I hope some seasoned members of this board can help me resurrect my Macintosh Classic (running System 7.5.3, if I remember correctly). Here's the problem:

My Classic (which I don't use all that often) used to work just fine. I recently tried to boot it up after some few months. The hard drive gave a clearly audible spinning sound (very short), then stopped. Takes a few seconds, then it spins up again (again very short). Afterwards, all it shows is the disk with the flashing question mark in it. When I boot it from the internal ROM (Command + Option + X + O) and go to the Startup Disk selection, it only shows me the ROM disk - which leads me to the assumption that the HD is not even recognized by the system. I opened it up, but all the connector wires and resistor packs (three of them) seem to be in place. No signs of capacitor leakage either.

Anyone here with an idea what might fix the situation? Any help is greatly appreciated, although I got to admit that I'm not the best solderer, so if it's a solution involving soldering, it might be tough...

Some more details:

- System 7.5.3 used to run

- 4MB RAM

- 40MB internal HD (Quantum, I guess it's the original one)

Greetings from Bavaria,

Daniel

PS: I saw Marintje's thread, but I think he/she's got another issue since his/her drive got exchanged. Mine is the original one - and it used to work just fine.

Macintosh Classic-OTHER, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, null

Posted on Aug 18, 2015 8:22 AM

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Answer 1

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Jan Hedlund

Level 7

22,303 points

Aug 18, 2015 9:32 AM in response to Daniel Ge.

Hello Daniel,

It would probably be correct to assume that you know what you are doing, but here is a warning anyway: Never work with an open computer connected to the mains. All work inside a compact Mac can be very dangerous because of the high voltage circuits involved, and must only be performed by someone with the necessary expertise. Charges may remain in certain sections even after the computer has been switched off and disconnected from the mains.

Is the logic board 3.6 V battery voltage OK? Also, have you tried a PRAM reset?

You do not mention whether a startup from a disk tools floppy has been tested. If not, try that, and run Disk First Aid (for example, version 7.2.2: http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/Utilities/Disk_First_Aid/Disk_First_Aid_7.2.2.sea.bin). Does DFA see the hard disk?

If DFA does not see the hard disk, one could run Apple HD SC Setup (version 7.3.5: http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/Utilities/Apple_HD_SC_Setup_7.3.5.sea.bin) and try to update the hard disk drive driver software. In doing this, there is always a risk that something could happen to files on the hard disk, so make sure that you have backup copies of important files in a safe place first.

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Answer 2

Daniel Ge. Author

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Aug 18, 2015 10:01 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

Hi Jan,

your voltage disclaimer makes sense! There's some really high voltage involved in all the CRT parts of the old Macs. I only work when disconnected and with lots of caution (got some old arcade machines here, same story with the high voltage).

About your remarks:

1. Logic Board: Will have to borrow a multimeter for this one - or just put in a new battery, guess that's easier. Is there a guide to replacing the battery you recommend? All the links to guides I found appear to be broken… 😟

2. PRAM reset: Not yet, will do it tomorrow. Start up with Command + Option + P + R, right?

3. Disk First Aid and HD SC Setup: Will do soon. There's nothing really important on that old machine, I just want to get it back up and running again. Thing is: It used to work, I changed nothing. Strange.

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Answer 3

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

22,303 points

Aug 18, 2015 11:12 AM in response to Daniel Ge.

Daniel,

1. Having a multimeter is always a good thing. Once you see the battery cage, it is not too different from more modern machines (for example, page 14 in the iMac G3 installation guide https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/0/MA492/en_US/iMacG3_originalInstallGuide .PDF).

2. Yes, that is correct.

3. OK. Do you have access to another pre-1998 Macintosh computer, if you have to create/modify tools floppies?

>It used to work, I changed nothing. Strange.

If there is a change during storage, one would suspect either the battery (which can affect the startup behaviour for some Macintosh models) or electrolytic capacitors. It can be difficult to determine whether a capacitor is bad or not. If no leakage, it could be an internal fault. If possible, use a magnifying glass or a microscope.

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Answer 4

Daniel Ge. Author

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Aug 18, 2015 11:26 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

1. Ok, will look for it once I got it on the workbench again. Thanks for the link.

3. No, unfortunately - just my MacBook Air and an USB 3,5" drive. But I somehow managed to create disks and even CDs (I have a caddy CD drive for the Classic) which were readable for the Classic.

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Answer 5

Daniel Ge. Author

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Aug 24, 2015 6:54 AM in response to Daniel Ge.

Jan, somehow this thread is now listed as "solved" - strange. Anyhow, I hope you're still looking at it and will get this update:

1. Have yet to get a multimeter to check the battery. And a long hex driver (last time I opened the classic, I used a short hex driver duct taped to a long screwdriver - worked but was a pain in the neck).

2. PRAM reset: Tried it, didn't work. Still shows flashing disk with question mark.

3. and 4.: Well, this is obviously not as easy as I remembered it to be. I managed to write a Network Access Disk with an image and this how-to:

http://lowendmac.com/2008/creating-classic-mac-boot-floppies-in-os-x/

Unfortunately, it won't let me change disks when booting from the Access Disk - as soon as pop the disk out, I get a message that I should put it in again (and it obviously will only accept the exact same disk). I then tried booting from the Classic's ROM (with Command + Option + X + O) which worked fine. But: Disks I formatted with Mac OS X won't be read by the Classic - and disks I formatted on the classic (which is quite easy when booting from the ROM) are not writeable on Mac OS X. You got any idea on what might be wrong?

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Answer 6

Limnos

Level 10

411,259 points

Aug 24, 2015 7:06 AM in response to Daniel Ge.

Disks I formatted with Mac OS X won't be read by the Classic - and disks I formatted on the classic (which is quite easy when booting from the ROM) are not writeable on Mac OS X. You got any idea on what might be wrong?

I don't know of anything which can run OSX and also work with SCSI drives the Classic uses unless you have a special SCSI card installed or it is one of the transitional phase computers such as my beige G3 where I could use anything from floppy disks to Firewire 400.

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Answer 7

Daniel Ge. Author

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Aug 24, 2015 7:16 AM in response to Limnos

I'm pretty sure I even burned CDs for the Classic on Mac OS X - but that was years ago on my old iBook G3 Dual USB and I don't remember all the details. Still got the old iBook lying around, though. You think it might sense trying to fire it up and formatting the disks for the Classic on it?

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Answer 8

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

22,303 points

Aug 24, 2015 12:51 PM in response to Daniel Ge.

Daniel,

>Unfortunately, it won't let me change disks when booting from the Access Disk - as soon as pop the disk out, I get a message that I should put it in again (and it obviously will only accept the exact same disk).

Apparently, you managed to create a working and bootable Network Access floppy. I assume that you reach the Desktop when booting from this floppy, but that you cannot see a hard disk icon. Are you attemting to modify the Network Access floppy on the Macintosh Classic via floppy-swapping?

Instead, could you possibly try to use the same method to directly create a Disk Tools floppy (like http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -British/Macintosh/System/System_7.0.1/Disk_Tools.image.sea.bin), which has Disk First Aid and HD SC Setup?

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Answer 9

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

22,303 points

Aug 24, 2015 2:18 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Addendum

If you are attempting to modify a Network Access or any other floppy disk, this should really be done on a pre-1998 Mac with a built-in floppy drive. Carrying out modifications on a computer without a (working) hard disk is complicated, and would involve swapping floppies many times. An iBook G3 dual USB (with an external USB Floppy drive) could possibly be useful, too (if running Mac OS 9.x).

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Answer 10

Limnos

Level 10

411,259 points

Aug 24, 2015 7:54 PM in response to Daniel Ge.

CDs for a Mac Classic??? We're talking about the one that looks like an Plus, right? I know CDs were around in those days but were only just coming into real fashion. I didn't know they had CD drives for the Classic. I never saw a CD drive until I got a Quadra (or was it my beige -- so long ago).

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