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MacOS Server, Webserver Design, Freedom, and Flexibility

BACKGROUND: I want to create a website that I can host on a wide variety of hosts. I would like to build it using recent versions of Apache, PHP, and MySQL. I have performed version checks of the software that comes installed with Mac OS 10.5.5, and it appears to be very recent. This said, I am afraid of becoming too dependent on the Apple operating environment, as my own work has, in the past, been greatly disturbed by Apple upgrades.


QUESTION ONE: If I were to build my site using MacOS Server would I be able to host my site at locations other than my own computer? If so, to what degree would I be limited in my choices of hosts?


QUESTION TWO: If I were to build my site without the use of the MacOS Server, where I can I obtain the best advice about how to get started? For example, I am familiar with MacPorts, like its overall approach, but have had severe difficulty in the past getting it to work in an older Apple OS environment.

iMac, Mac OS X (10.7.3), Mid-2007 Version

Posted on Aug 22, 2015 8:58 AM

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5 replies

Aug 22, 2015 10:00 AM in response to Hamo

What OS are you actually referring to, your posts list 10.5.5 (very old) and 10.7 (old).


OS X server uses the same software as many web hosts however they generally run on Linux or some other form of *nix. The knowledge isn't identical when it comes to managing both servers. You can probably run Linux on the Mac if you really need the systems to be the same.


1. If you really want to develop and host on OSX you will need to find a Mac based host - there are not many of them. Or you can collocate if you want to send in/ buy your own server. http://www.macminicolo.net/


2. Start learning how the LAMP stack works. There are many variations that are 'self contained', for example MAMP, DAMP on OS X.

https://www.mamp.info/en/

http://www.acquia.com/products-services/dev-desktop (this is designed for use with Drupal)

Or a list of similar AMP stacks for Mac

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apache–MySQL–PHP_packages#Mac


Those self contained Apache, MySQL, PHP stacks allow you to setup, test, tweak & brake the server & then start over by reinstalling the stack. You can learn quite a lot without ever needing to modify the OS X version of AMP. You don't really need OSX server to run AMP, it just adds extra UI to the process - frankly it seems pointless to me, the UI doesn't seem to work well when you need to tweak the web server, sometimes you have to make changes to text files & use Terminal commands – at times you may as well be on linux or using OS X client instead.

Aug 24, 2015 10:08 AM in response to Drew Reece

I would like to thank you for your response. Your suggestion with regard to http://www.macminicolo.net was very helpful, as it reminded me of thought that was cut short by events many months ago and needed to be refreshed.


I have updated my machine specifications and physical location so that you might have a better ides of both my virtual and physical operating environments.


The other information that you provided is of little use to me, but hopefully of use to others who might have a question similar to my own. For the moment I am leaning toward the MacOS X Server with the reservation that I will be careful to record each and all of my actions with regard to file creation and location, so that I am able to quickly recover from a broken system brought about the installation of a new Apple software or the acquisition of new hardware.


As I have never owned MacOS X Server, I have really no idea how well it will satisfy my needs. It is for this reason that I would like to keep this dialogue open and no further ado pose another question.


QUESTION THREE: Will I be able to install PEAR and upgrade my versions of PHP and MySQL while still working within the MacOS X Server environment? Or, must I resign myself to a fixed package with no possibility of modification or only modification that requires a technical "genius" to implement?


For example, I already have a very useful, but limited knowledge of UNIX terminal commands. I can do things like edit, move, rename, and copy files, create symlinks, discover version numbers and the location of important files and directories. As with any language, however, too little information can be very dangerous in a complex environment. My biggest concern with Apple is no different than my concern with any packaged bundle of software. Each package has is own way of configuring and distributing critical files -- a way that can only truly be understood and appreciated by the creator himself. This brings me to my next question.
QUESTION FOUR: Is there a reliable place on the net where the MacOS X Server file layout and contents can be easily understood, so that users with limited knowledge, like myself, can easily determine where alterations need to be made in order to implement new and upgrade old software?

Aug 25, 2015 9:05 AM in response to Hamo

MySQL isn't installed on OS X server by default. It is simple to install & setup but you are responsible for applying it's updates. Considering how many sites get attacked via MySQL exploits are you sure you want the responsibility for keeping it secure in addition to the website code? You don't have to be a technical genius to run a server, but if you are responsible for it you need to dedicate time to maintaining it & updating the packages installed. You can use the built in PostgreSQL DB instead to stay with the Apple installed software.


3. You are asking for simple update management from Apple plus the ability to update to newer versions of some third party packages without things breaking via Apple updates. They are mutually exclusive.

Apple release updates to their software & for the bundled libraries/ packages from third parties. Apple's own PHP may be enough for you, it really depends on what software platform you are actually going to host.

If you stick to using Apple's web software built into server (basically a Wiki) you will be fine. If you need to run any other third party software such as Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla etc then you will start to need to add extra software libraries and make changes for certain features that may get overwritten by system updates. Server is better at managing this than OS X Client but even so the solution is to backup before applying updates & to know how to restore them when a problem occurs.


4. You are unlikely to ever know OS X well enough to manage a list of 'files to change' because the OS X server UI will edit the config files behind your back. Look at a clean installed OS X disk, hundreds of thousands of files. The best you can do is read the manuals & read the sites that discuss server setup (or get a job as a system admin & spend years learning).



Sorry, I'm failing to see how you can want to make a website that runs on 'a wide variety of hosts' and then pick one of the most niche platforms to use as a web server. OS X has it's own way to build & install software, fewer users do this on a server compared to other OS's used for web hosting, it means less help on the web. It also means issues take longer to resolve. OS X doesn't even register most of the time if you look at statistics for web server OS usage.


It looks like you are trying to look at a 'big picture' where you manage everything. Starting with the server is not a simple way to make a website. What's the point of all the extra work? Build your site & use any of the millions of existing web hosts, learn how to manage a website then you can move from any host to another. The server choice should be ancillary.

Third party hosts will keep your software up to date, manage the firewall & do many things that you need to manage if you self host on OS X. Have you considered all that?

Aug 27, 2015 12:23 PM in response to Drew Reece

I would like to thank you for your helpful advice. You have convinced me that I should not use MacOS X Server, but make individual use of the (AMP - M) package installed with Yosemite. Although I am still tempted to use MacPorts, I have decided against it, for fear that I would not be able to map it properly. Well, this was the result of a full week's worth of effort the last time in my much older operating system on my MacBook. In short, henceforth, I will go the unautomated "manual" route and see what happens.

Sep 6, 2015 5:01 PM in response to Hamo

The various MAMP packages are worth using to trial the stack.

https://www.apachefriends.org/index.html

https://www.mamp.info/en/

http://www.ampps.com/


They become disposable if you break the settings. Just be aware that they can't use the same ports at the same time & it should be fine. You can also use them to evaluate what frameworks you want to use for your site.

MacOS Server, Webserver Design, Freedom, and Flexibility

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