Theo_99
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Q: Power Mac 7200/90 will not boot from its HDD

I was a longtime Mac user but had to convert to Windows almost 20 years ago for work-related reasons. As a result, my PowerMac 7200/90 got increasingly less use.  Eventually, it sat idle for a number of years.  I recently tried to boot it to access some files on it that would have been useful for a work project, but it failed to boot from its HDD. I then booted it off of the Apple McIntosh CD that came with the computer.  The HDD mounted immediately and I ran Disk Doctor which diagnosed a problem with the root directory on the HDD but Disk Doctor was unable to repair the problem.  I then ran Disk Warrior off of a bootable CD.  Disk Warrior reported that it was successful in building a new optimized directory and that it had made no changes to any of the files or folders on the HDD in doing so.  All attempts to boot the computer from its HDD after Disk Warrior had worked its magic have ended in failure – each time, the Apple “happy face” appears on the startup screen and there’s the promising sound of some initial disk activity, but then the “happy face” just sits there and the computer fails to boot.

 

The report generated by Disk Warrior indicated that “no system folder was found” by Disk Warrior in the process of rebuilding the HDD’s directory (although the system folder is there, plain as day, after the computer boots and the HDD mounts).  As a result, as recommended in Apple’s operating manual for the PowerMac 7200/90, I decided to do either a clean install (first choice) or a full install of the system software (plan B) to try to get the computer to “find” its system software and to boot from its HDD.  When the computer is booted from either the Apple McIntosh CD that came with it or from the bootable CD that contains Disk Warrior, the HDD mounts with no problem and all the data on it appears to be intact.  (I’ve been able to open a number of Word files and they all appear to be fine.)  When I ran Disk Repair (in preparation for attempting either a clean or full install of the system software), it indicated that the HD “appears to be okay” (which is consistent with Disk Warrior having completed its rebuild of the directory successfully).  Selecting “Repair” as an option under Disk Repair not surprisingly does nothing (because the utility didn’t diagnose anything in need of repair).  Here’s where things get strange:  Disk Warrior had no problem identifying the HDD on one of its initial screens; it indicated that the HDD was “a Mac OS standard disk” (which it is; the computer has never been modified). But when I ran Disk Setup, it identified the HDD as “not supported”; the only option that Disk Setup then provides (under the “Functions” menu) is “Rescan Bus” but the eventual outcome of running “Rescan Bus” is the warning “Cannot modify the disk in an unsupported drive.”   As a result of Disk Setup being unable to identify the HDD as “a Mac OS standard disk” and the fact that the keystroke combination for a clean install on startup has no effect, I’m unable to do a clean install of the system software (since I can't access the screen that would allow me to choose to install a new system folder on the HDD).  When I try to do a full install (i.e., plan B), the installation fails from the get go; the computer either says that an unknown error (-199) occurred, or the Apple “bomb” screen appears and the computer hangs. 

 

Having used Windows PCs pretty much exclusively for almost 20 years now, my knowledge base regarding Mac OS system problems and possible solutions is very thin at this point.  Does anyone have any suggestions on options that I might try to get my Power Mac 7200/90 to boot successfully from its HDD?  It appears to have been using Mac OS 7.5.3 Revision 2.  The bootable CD that was provided with Disk Warrior came with OS 9.1 on it, which boots the computer very smoothly, but my gut sense is that if I tried to install a more recent OS on the computer's HDD, the install would fail (for the same reasons that a clean or full installation of the current OS are failing).  Since the data on the internal HDD is useful though not irreplaceable, if getting the computer to boot from its HDD is a lost cause, I would be willing to consider buying an external HDD that came with a more recent OS already installed on it, assuming that the computer would be able to boot from that external drive.  Any suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Posted on Aug 25, 2015 7:02 PM

by Jeff,Solvedanswer
Jeff Jeff
Level 6 (11,559 points)
A:

That's it, although the settings vary somewhat by the make/model of the specific SCSI hard drive, regarding the placement of the jumper(s) across the pins.  Typically, a SCSI address of "0" uses no jumper.  Setting the address to "1" requires a single jumper of the proper size and pin spacing.  There should be a label on the top of the drive, showing the pin configurations for various addresses.  You don't want to use "3," because the SCSI CD-ROM drive is always set to that by default.  If the drive has no label, a web search will provide you with the settings that are specific to that drive.  If your original hard drive (that you removed) has a jumper installed across a pair of pins designated "TE" (termination enabled), remove it.  As you've described it, the new hard drive is in that top bay, so it's the last device connected to the SCSI ribbon cable and the only device that should have termination enabled via a "TE" jumper.

Posted on Oct 6, 2015 9:28 PM

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Q: Power Mac 7200/90 will not boot from its HDD

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  • by Theo_99,

    Theo_99 Theo_99 Aug 28, 2015 8:49 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 28, 2015 8:49 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Jan,

    Unless you are thinking about special firmware for the hard drive, the hard disk driver software is installed as a part of the formatting/initialisation process (for example, by Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5, Drive Setup 1.7.3, or a third-party utility such as Lido 7.56).

    This is what I suspected.  The only problems that the various Macs that I used for more than 10 years gave me were third party software incompatibilities, so I never had the need or desire to "look under the [hardware] hood" of any of my Macs.  I'm much more familiar with diagnosing and resolving hardware and software problems with Windows PCs.

    Because of all the errors until now, that seems to be risky. If you do not want to change/reformat/erase the internal hard disk, and just have occasional access to files, it would probably be a lot safer to boot from another disk/disc. That could be a CD, another SCSI hard drive (internal or external), or possibly even a special/modified floppy capable of expanding the space with a RAM disk.

    Booting from another source is probably where I will end up since I don't want to take any measures that may destroy the data that's still in accessible form on the 7200/90.  Although there are thousands of data files on the 7200/90 I'm fairly confident that most of those files were migrated to my Windows PCs over time.  The rest either consist of personal information (old tax filings etc.) or information that was stored on the Filemaker database that's on the 7200/90 that I know I didn't migrate over to a Windows environment.  Over the course of any given year, I've had occasion to look for something on the 7200/90 maybe two or three times at most, so this is definitely not a situation where recovering the data on the 7200/90 is critical.

    Can I assume that the Update Driver option was not available under the Functions menu?

    Correct. The only option that Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched provided was to initialize the hard drive.

    A driver update possibility may be limited to the software originally used for the initialisation. If you know which utility was used, and if you have access to the third-party program in question, have you checked whether it provides an available option to merely update the driver?

    I'm quite sure the computer consultant formatted the hard drive with the FWB Hard Disk Toolkit since I noticed this morning that the icon for the hard drive bears the same two-hammers-crossed-in-an-X shape that's also the icon for the Toolkit itself.  The options under the various utilities that are part of the Toolkit are highly technical, e.g., Set File Limit, Adjust System Heap Size etc.; updating the driver is unfortunately not among them.

     

    An option that would kill two birds with one stone occurred to me this morning; the 7200/90 has quite a large footprint; theoretically, an ideal space-saving solution would be to buy an old Mac laptop that runs on a not-too-recent OS (all of the applications stored on the 7200/90's hard drive seem to compatible with OS 7.5 up to OS 9.1), and to then transfer all of the data on the 7200/90 over to that laptop.  Is that a feasible option on the Mac side of things?  A few weeks ago, a hard drive on my Windows 7 PC was failing. I had enough time before the drive failed completely to recover most of the data on that drive by removing it, attaching the drive to a USB Sata & IDE Adapter (which effectively converted it to an external USB drive) and then transferring the recoverable data over to a new internal drive.  On the Mac side of things, could I likewise remove the 7200/90's hard drive and convert it to an external drive, either by inserting it into a hard drive enclosure or via the adapter method that I've described above?  Do old(ish) Mac laptops typically come with at least one USB slot that would make it possible to connect such an "external" drive to the laptop?  As previously mentioned, I'm out of my element now when it comes to these sorts of issues when it comes to Macs.  If the laptop option that I've described above is technically feasible, it would probably be my preferred solution at this point since it would allow me to recover the data on the 7200/90 as well as some valuable office space.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 28, 2015 10:36 AM in response to Theo_99
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Aug 28, 2015 10:36 AM in response to Theo_99

    Theo_99,

     

    >an ideal space-saving solution would be to buy an old Mac laptop that runs on a not-too-recent OS (all of the applications stored on the 7200/90's hard drive seem to compatible with OS 7.5 up to OS 9.1), and to then transfer all of the data on the 7200/90 over to that laptop.  Is that a feasible option on the Mac side of things?

     

    Yes, that would be an excellent solution. A PowerBook model from approx. 1995 to 1998. An HDI-30 SCSI port (not all models) allows the connection of an external hard drive or CD-ROM drive. Used with the proper adapter, you can also operate the PowerBook in SCSI disk mode (or HD target mode), where the laptop will act as an external SCSI hard drive for a desktop Mac. Many machines have built-in Ethernet. Often an internal CD-ROM drive. One or two late models have USB (but other ports may be missing). Most have PC Card slots (one good thing about this is that an inexpensive PC Card adapter for CompactFlash can be used; a standard CF memory card will then work as a removable "hard drive"). The (PowerPC) PowerBook computer profiles at, for example, LowEndMac could perhaps be of interest to begin with.

     

    If you so wish, once the transfer has been carried out and backup copies made, the hard drive from the 7200/90 could be (formatted/initialised and) placed in an external SCSI enclosure.

     

    Do not hesitate to post back if you have further questions.

  • by Theo_99,

    Theo_99 Theo_99 Aug 28, 2015 2:28 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 28, 2015 2:28 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Jan,

     

    Many thanks.  I will look into trying to buy an old PowerBook that has the HDI-30 SCSI port that you refer to.

    Used with the proper adapter, you can also operate the PowerBook in SCSI disk mode (or HD target mode), where the laptop will act as an external SCSI hard drive for a desktop Mac.

    That sounds like an ideal solution.  An article at LowEndMac indicates that operating a PowerBook in SCSI disk mode requires a cable called a SCSI Disk Adapter.  The picture below is from a cable that's currently for sale on ebay that's described on the packaging as an "Apple HDI-30 SCSI Disk Adapter".

    pic 1.JPG

     

    Can you kindly confirm that that's what you were referring to as "the proper adapter" and whether only one such cable/adapter would be required in my case (since I already have the "Apple SCSI System Cable" that's pictured to the right of the photo below -- likely from the Zip drive that I discarded some years ago)?

     

    pic 2.JPG

  • by Theo_99,

    Theo_99 Theo_99 Aug 28, 2015 3:03 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 28, 2015 3:03 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Sorry Jan,

     

    With a little more digging, it appears that, in my case, all I would need is the one cable shown below, since the 7200/90 has a DB25 female connector at the back. 

     

    pic 3.jpg

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 28, 2015 3:16 PM in response to Theo_99
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Aug 28, 2015 3:16 PM in response to Theo_99

    Yes, only one Apple HDI-30 Disk Adapter cable. That cable has an HDI-30 plug with 30 pins, to be connected to the PowerBook's SCSI port. The other end has a large CEN connector. You would combine the cable with a system cable (CEN one end, DB-25M the other end) in order to achieve a link between the two computers. This is for SCSI disk mode (HD target mode), that is when the PowerBook is acting as a hard drive.

     

    Do not confuse the above adapter cable with the Apple HDI-30 SCSI System cable, which has an HDI-30 plug with only 29 pins (to be used to connect external hard drives, CD-ROM drives, etc to the PowerBook).

     

    The 30th pin tells the PowerBook to switch to SCSI disk mode.

     

    More about SCSI and SCSI disk mode can be found in the user guide for each PowerBook model.

     

    Pre-1995 PowerBook models do also have HDI-30 ports (and some of them can handle SCSI disk mode), but you should really look for a PowerPC machine (603 or G3 processor), beginning with the PB 5300 series (check the supported system software versions for each model).

     

    EDIT: Just noticed your new post. No, that cable appears to be a "system cable" for the connection of external SCSI devices to the PowerBook, not for SCSI disk mode. We cannot count the pins in the HDI-30 plug, but there are probably only 29.

  • by Theo_99,

    Theo_99 Theo_99 Aug 28, 2015 3:34 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 28, 2015 3:34 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Jan,

     

    Understood.  I will keep my eyes peeled for a suitable PowerBook and cable.  I think this ends my crash course in Mac-related hardware issues for the time being.  Many thanks for all your help.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 28, 2015 3:47 PM in response to Theo_99
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Aug 28, 2015 3:47 PM in response to Theo_99

    Theo_99,

     

    You're welcome! Good luck!

     

    Jan

  • by Theo_99,

    Theo_99 Theo_99 Oct 6, 2015 3:05 PM in response to Jeff
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 6, 2015 3:05 PM in response to Jeff

    Jeff,

     

    I don't know whether you've been following this thread, but essentially what I decided (after weighing the many options and thinking through a lot of Jan Hedland's advice) was to try to get my PowerMac booting again, then to move the data from my (former) boot drive to the a new boot drive, and (possibly) to then move all my data to a Mac PowerBook, to recover the office space that's now being occupied by my (rarely used) PowerMac.  I'm at the point now where I've purchased a refurbished hard drive from eBay (for an exorbitant price, as you suggested would likely be the case in your post of August 26th), I've successfully installed and initialized that refurbished drive as the new boot drive, and I've also installed OS 8.1 (the minimum requirement apparently to be able to transfer files to a PowerBook that's running in Disk Mode).  My PowerMac is now booting smoothly from the refurbished drive running OS 8.1, so my next task is to install my (former) boot drive internally, beneath the refurbished drive that's now serving as the new boot drive, and (hopefully) to successfully transfer the data files from my former boot drive to my new one.  In your August 26th post, you mentioned that:

     

    "Since the exiting hard drive is configured for SCSI address "0," it's usually easiest to configure the added hard drive to address "1," to prevent any conflict."

     

    I know from past experience that setting the SCSI ID for an external SCSI device is just a matter of (manually) choosing a number on the back of the device.  How does one configure the SCSI ID for a PowerMac's second internal hard drive to "1" (as you've recommended) -- and is there a special pin setting for that second internal hard drive, akin to a "slave" setting on a PC?  (The old boot drive had a pin set at the third pin from the right and I used the same pin setting when I installed the refurbished drive as my new boot drive; I don't know whether primary/slave pin settings apply on the Mac side of things.)

     

    Regards

  • by Jeff,Solvedanswer

    Jeff Jeff Oct 6, 2015 9:28 PM in response to Theo_99
    Level 6 (11,559 points)
    Oct 6, 2015 9:28 PM in response to Theo_99

    That's it, although the settings vary somewhat by the make/model of the specific SCSI hard drive, regarding the placement of the jumper(s) across the pins.  Typically, a SCSI address of "0" uses no jumper.  Setting the address to "1" requires a single jumper of the proper size and pin spacing.  There should be a label on the top of the drive, showing the pin configurations for various addresses.  You don't want to use "3," because the SCSI CD-ROM drive is always set to that by default.  If the drive has no label, a web search will provide you with the settings that are specific to that drive.  If your original hard drive (that you removed) has a jumper installed across a pair of pins designated "TE" (termination enabled), remove it.  As you've described it, the new hard drive is in that top bay, so it's the last device connected to the SCSI ribbon cable and the only device that should have termination enabled via a "TE" jumper.

  • by Theo_99,

    Theo_99 Theo_99 Oct 7, 2015 8:47 AM in response to Jeff
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 7, 2015 8:47 AM in response to Jeff

    Jeff,

     

    Many thanks.  After posting to you last night, I was able to find and download the owner's manual for the Seagate 1 GB Hawk drive that I purchased from Ebay and I reviewed it for the proper procedures to set the SCSI ID and proper jumper positions when installing 2 internal drives.  Your comments correctly summarize the instructions in that owner's manual.  This morning, I was able to get my PowerMac to boot from the "new" boot drive and my old boot drive mounted successfully on the second try. (I just had to make one adjustment to the jumpers to get everything working correctly.)  Once both drives were mounted and functioning properly, the data from my old boot drive transferred over to my new boot drive much more quickly than I imagined (probably because almost all of the 1000s of data files on my old boot drive were plain text files).

     

    I'm no longer knowledgeable enough about Mac matters to provide any meaningful assistance in these Apple forums or to properly thank you and Jan for pointing me in the right direction to solve my problem(s), but, for whatever it may be worth to anyone else who may find him/herself in a similar position as me, below is a checklist that I prepared for myself of the steps that I ultimately took to get my PowerMac functioning again:

     

    • Purchase a (refurbished) SCSI hard drive.  (In my case, I purchased the exact same Seagate ST312OON Hawk drive from eBay as my old (unbootable) drive, to minimize having to deal with any more "Mac learning curve" issues, e.g., I read on some other posts that some vintage Macs have compatibility issues with drives that are too large, so, to avoid that sort of problem, I intentionally bought the same 1 GB drive as my old (unbootable) drive.)
    • When the (refurbished) drive arrives, remove the old boot drive and install the purchased drive as  the new boot drive.
    • Boot the new boot drive from Disk Tools on a 1.44 MB floppy.  (In my case, I replaced the HD Setup utility that originally came with that floppy with Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched before the new boot drive arrived.)
    • Run Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched and initialize/format the new boot drive.
    • Run Disk First Aid on the new boot drive (to confirm that it doesn't have any mechanical defects).
    • If Disk First Aid reports that the new boot drive is "ok," install OS 8.1 on the new boot drive.  (In my case, I chose to install OS 8.1 because I may still follow through on my plan to purchase a Mac Powerbook and, as I noted in my post of yesterday, a Mac Powerbook running in Disk Mode will apparently only "communicate" with another Mac (to enable the transfer of files over to the Powerbook) if the other Mac is running at least OS 8.1.  The other reason that I deliberately chose not to install a more recent OS was that I wanted to reduce the odds of the applications on my old boot drive (mainly Word and FileMaker) not being compatible with the OS.  Finally, there was some risk that 1 GB wasn't going to be enough disk space for OS 9 and all of the data files that I was going to be transferring to the new boot disk.)
    • Power off the PowerMac and confirm that it's now booting successfully from the new boot drive.
    • If "yes," review the owner's manual(s) for the 2 hard drives to confirm how to set the SCSI ID and the jumpers for both internal drives so that the computer will continue to boot from the new boot drive and the old boot drive will mount successfully as the second drive in the SCSI chain.  (In my case, this step was made easier by the fact that, again, both drives are identical Seagate drives, although, as noted above, on the first try, my old boot drive didn't mount and I had to make one jumper change to it before it would mount successfully.)
    • Once the PowerMac is up and running and both internal drives are functioning properly, transfer all data files from the old boot drive to the new boot drive.
    • If desired, run Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched to (re)initialise the old boot drive so that it can be used as a back up data drive in the new configuration.

     

    I'm sure there were other methods of solving my problem(s) with my PowerMac (such as buying an external drive with an OS already installed on it that my PowerMac would have booted from), but the above steps ultimately got me to the place whereI wanted to be -- namely, with a fully functional PowerMac that gave me back access to all of the data files that were stored on my old boot disk, without having still more hardware lying around taking up even more office space.

  • by Jeff,

    Jeff Jeff Oct 8, 2015 7:45 PM in response to Theo_99
    Level 6 (11,559 points)
    Oct 8, 2015 7:45 PM in response to Theo_99

    I'm glad to hear that everything worked out for you.  Your thorough step-by-step checklist will be useful to future posters, who find your topic after searching the Forum.  After you wrote: "Run Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched and initialize/format the new boot drive," I'd add the following: as an HFS (Mac OS Standard) volume for OS 8.0 and earlier versions of the Mac OS, or as an HFS+ (Mac OS Extended) volume, for OS 8.1 and newer versions.  When formatting larger drives as an HFS+ volume, the minimum allocation block size is reduced to significantly eliminate wasted storage capacity that can occur, especially with small files.

  • by BDAqua,

    BDAqua BDAqua Oct 8, 2015 11:30 PM in response to Jeff
    Level 10 (123,905 points)
    Oct 8, 2015 11:30 PM in response to Jeff

    Great work Jeff, Jan, & Theo too!

  • by Theo_99,

    Theo_99 Theo_99 Oct 9, 2015 8:46 AM in response to Jeff
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 9, 2015 8:46 AM in response to Jeff

    Jeff, for that particular step in my checklist, I originally wrote "Run Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched and initialize/format the new boot drive (check whether there’s an option to format the purchased drive in HFS+ format)."  I subsequently wrote the following comment to myself:  "further reading has confirmed that “680×0 Macintosh computers (such as Power Macs) cannot boot from an HFS+ volume. Therefore, you should not format the new boot drive in HFS+ format."  I don't recall seeing that formatting option when I ran Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched, but I can't say that I was looking for it.  The source(s) for my "further reading" comment may have been wrong, but, since being able to boot my Power Mac from the new drive was the main objective form me, it wasn't a risk that I was prepared to take.

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