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Can I mix roamed and wirelessly extend in one network?

Hi all,

Can I wirelessly extend an Airport extreme station which is extending via Ethernet another Airport extreme?


I got:

1. Airport Extreme ac (primary)

2. Airport Extreme ac

3. Airport Extreme (5th gen)

4. Airport Express (2nd gen)


The setup I want to do and dont know if it will work:

First extreme ac is connected to internet and is doing DHCP and NAT and is creating a wi-fi network called „house”. Second extreme ac is connected to first extreme via ethernet cable and is set to create the same wi-fi network „house” (same password) running in bridge mode. Third extreme (5th gen) is set to extend wifi network „house” but it is within range of first and second extremes and I dont know which it will connect to? Will it choose strongest signal or only capable to connect to first primary extreme to extend the wifi? Finally express is set to extend wifi „house” but it is only within range of second extreme. Will it be able to extend the wifi? Or it will only extend wifi when in range of first primary extreme? Keep in mind that second extreme is already „extending via ethernet” the first primary extreme.

So the scheme will look like this (each station on one floor of the building):


Internet

|

|

extreme ac (DHCP, NAT, creating wifi)

|

| (ethernet cable)

|

|

extreme ac (bridge, creating wifi)

. .

. (in wifi range) . (in wifi range)

. .

. .

extreme 5th gen express 2nd gen

(extending via wifi) (extending via wifi)


Cheers, Jack

Posted on Aug 26, 2015 1:23 AM

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Posted on Aug 26, 2015 1:42 AM

Will it choose strongest signal or only capable to connect to first primary extreme to extend the wifi?

It will connect to the strongest signal.


Finally express is set to extend wifi „house” but it is only within range of second extreme. Will it be able to extend the wifi? Or it will only extend wifi when in range of first primary extreme? Keep in mind that second extreme is already „extending via ethernet” the first primary extreme.

It will extend the second Extreme.. to a wireless client or extending router, it makes no difference if you have router or extend by ethernet.

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Question marked as Best reply

Aug 26, 2015 1:42 AM in response to jacek2008

Will it choose strongest signal or only capable to connect to first primary extreme to extend the wifi?

It will connect to the strongest signal.


Finally express is set to extend wifi „house” but it is only within range of second extreme. Will it be able to extend the wifi? Or it will only extend wifi when in range of first primary extreme? Keep in mind that second extreme is already „extending via ethernet” the first primary extreme.

It will extend the second Extreme.. to a wireless client or extending router, it makes no difference if you have router or extend by ethernet.

Aug 26, 2015 7:20 AM in response to jacek2008

In addition to the comments from LaPastenague, you can check to see if both AirPort Expresses are "extending" correctly by opening AirPort Utility.


If they have been configured correctly, both AirPort Expresses will display side by side with both devices connecting via a dotted line.....which represents a wireless connection.


If the AirPort Expresses display "vertically", with one Express connected to the other Express, then the Express at the bottom of the vertical stack is not extending the signal from the AirPort Extreme ac. In fact, it is not "extending" at all....it is "joining" the network, and it does not provide any additional wireless extension in this type of setup.


The reason for this is that Apple's "extend a wireless network" feature will only allow the signal to be wirelessly extended one time, not two. In other words, you can have multiple devices wirelessly extending the signal, but they must all be connecting to the same AirPort device.

Aug 26, 2015 9:10 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Thanks, just one more thing, I want be sure if reading you correctly:)

Is it possible that while one express is wirelessly extentending first extreme ac, the other express is extending the second extreme ac?

Or maybe both extending expresses will only be able to extend from the ONE (SAME) of the two extremes ac at a time?


you can have multiple devices wirelessly extending the signal, but they must all be connecting to the same AirPort device.

... MUST all be connecting to the SAME extreme, or can connect to any of the two extremes they like (which I assume will be chosen by signal strenght)?

For example: one xpress extending first extreme while other express extending the second extreme? Or again both expresses will only be able to extend when connected to one (same) of the two extremes?

Aug 26, 2015 9:22 AM in response to jacek2008

Either Express can extend the signal from either one of the AirPort Extremes.


The tricky part comes when you have two Expresses trying to extend the signal from the same AirPort Extreme. In situations like this, both Expresses need to be closer to the AirPort Extreme than they are to each other.


IF....one Express is closer to another Express than it is to the AirPort Extreme, then the signal will not be extended by both Expresses.

Aug 26, 2015 9:40 AM in response to Bob Timmons

IF....one Express is closer to another Express than it is to the AirPort Extreme, then the signal will not be extended by both Expresses.

Hmm, not quite… I observed that the extending expresses just need to be in range of the extreme to correctly extend its wifi. Their range to each other doesnt matter as long as they both are in range of the extreme. Both expresses can be one next to the other but they all have to be in range of extreme and both need to be set to extend - when its done, they are both extending the extreme. But when one of the expresses is out range of the extreme, and the other express is in range of extreme then the first express will connect vertically to other express as you said before and just join the network and not extending it.

Aug 26, 2015 9:47 AM in response to jacek2008

I observed that the extending expresses just need to be in range of the extreme to correctly extend its wifi. Their range to each other doesnt matter as long as they both are in range of the extreme

That is interesting, and great if it is working for you, but is not my experience at all when I've done this in past. I have to make sure that both Expresses are closer to the "main" AirPort than they are to each other. If they aren't, then one Express connects to the other Express, with the result that one Express extends the signal from the main AirPort and the other Express does not.

Aug 26, 2015 10:06 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Hmm, there was a couple of significant updates to airport devices, and maybe in the past it was true, but now it just works as I described. In couple of hours I will test it more radically (put 1 meter away one express from the second and try extend the extreme which is one floor higher - should be good) and post my experience. I also noticed a checkbox "Allow to extend this network" is no more in the airport setup screen, any ideas where it is gone? Oh and dont know if its important but we are discussing here a situation where we have two expresses trying to extend, but in fact I got one express and the other extender is old extreme 5th gen (as I said in initial post, but didnt want to correct you to add additional mess to discussion😉

Aug 26, 2015 11:50 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Seems like You dont have to check things out. Just did some tests, put them 1 meter away from each other, and dang! You were right! Express just connected verically and is not extending anything. Looks like it just seeks for the strongest signal and connect vertically ignoring the fact that it is supposed to extend the wifi just like its 1 meter away bro. Really weird, why it is doing that way?

Aug 26, 2015 1:27 PM in response to jacek2008

As LaPastenague has already pointed out above, Apple's extend setup works on wireless signal strength....for better or for worse.....so if one Express "sees" a stronger signal from the other Express, it will connect to that source, and not the AirPort Extreme that you want.


The general rule of thumb, if you have two Expresses connecting to the same AirPort Extreme, as in your setup......then ideally both Expresses will be about the same distance from the AirPort Extreme......AND.....each Express will be closer to the AirPort Extreme than it is to the other Express.


That way, the strongest signal that each Express picks up will be from the AirPort Extreme.


It's unfortunate that Apple does not really allow users to specify which device they want to connect to which. It's all based on signal strength.

Aug 26, 2015 1:37 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Maybe its all about interfering each other? Maybe Apple thought "its nonsense to two stations pumping out in the air same network if they very close to each other". My extending expresses are about 3 meters away from each other and between them is 40 cm concrete wall. And the extreme station they are extending is two floors above which gives ca. 6 meters away and about total 80 cm of concrete between them. And they are nicely both extending the extreme. One of them with 117 Mb link to extreme and the other has 216Mb link to extreme. I bet the expresses are getting better signals between them, than to the extreme two floors higher, and even that they are still both nicely extending the extreme. So there must be other factor than just a signal strenght.

Aug 26, 2015 2:34 PM in response to jacek2008

I don't use express.. but I have several airports and a few TC (which I repair or used to do) so networks grew fairly complicated.. and I can confirm what Bob is saying.. The extend wireless would bounce between sources of signal, and sometimes fail because it would bounce to a unit that was sitting in isolation undergoing testing.


You should not ever need the Express as close as 3M apart .. it is important to realise wireless causes interference to itself.. the more products you add the more wireless sources you have the messier the setup gets.


I did go to great lengths to control the network.. I use different names for the 2.4ghz and 5ghz and force the extend wireless to the 5ghz band.. I also control the channels to ensure I get the best outcome.. when you saturate the signals in an area.. it is going to be problematic.


Let me also commend the old airport utility over the new one. I run Mountain Lion so it is easy to install and use both v5 and v6 utility.. it is much harder since Mavericks.


But v5 utility showed in graphical form links and how good they were. Here is a real setup which was giving issues.. the link between the two airports was 2Mbps and let me assure you that is far too poor to work.. and changing it (by forcing the names) to 5ghz made all the difference.. even with low signal the link at 5ghz was faster and much more reliable.


User uploaded file


Some of the info is available in the v6 utility by hovering your cursor over the relevant area of the summary page. That extra little box pops up.. and if you place it over the connection you can see more details.


User uploaded file


So hover over good.. where it shows connection and a bunch of info pops up. Speed and signal strength..

User uploaded file


But you also should realise this is from the main router perspective.. not the extender..


One of those confusing things.. links can be faster one way than the other.. v5 utility shows actual results from both ends.. v6 utility cannot. I have found significant speed and signal difference end to end..


So if you have a suitable computer or even windows.. and can load up the old utility.. when you are doing complex setups it can be a big help.


In the end.. running ethernet is the right way to do things..


If it is not possible then try Ethernet over power adapters,, called homeplug in US or powerline in UK. We generally just say EOP adapters.

They are not perfect and not always going to work.. but when they do, they tend to be much more reliable than wireless.

Aug 30, 2015 2:25 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks, that was very helpful. One more question. Can I "extend via ethernet" using express an extreme station which is already extending via wifi another extreme? Extreme doesnt have ethernet connected into WAN only will have cable connected into LAN and this cable will be connected into WAN in the express. Express will create the same network as extreme. The detailed setup would look like this:


Internet

|

|

extreme ac (DHCP, NAT, creating wifi)

|

| (ethernet cable)

|

|

extreme ac (bridge, creating wifi)

.

. (in wifi range)

.

.

extreme 5th gen (bridge, creating wifi)

(extending via wifi)

|

|

|

express 2nd gen (bridge)

(creating wifi)

Can I mix roamed and wirelessly extend in one network?

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