JustSomeOldGuy

Q: Does Apple Pay actually work without an internet connection?

Apple has made a big deal about how none of your banking information is stored anywhere but on your device.  So why does Apple Pay require an internet connection to make a purchase?  (Apple support told me it does, no matter what.)  So if you're out of range or some other computer glitch keeps your device from accessing the internet, you're stuck using more reliable methods...which work just fine without an internet connection.

 

Can someone please clarify whether an internet connection is always required to use Apple Pay, and if so, why? This doesn't seem rational to me.  If no information is stored elsewhere about me or my card, what could they possibly be checking?  Furthermore, what information of mine is my iPhone/Apple Watch sending when making a purchase?  What is being verified by Apple that requires an internet connection at time of purchase?  Cell and wifi connections can be monitored and hacked.  Apple Pay doesn't sound so secure to me!

Apple Watch, watchOS 1.0.1

Posted on Sep 24, 2015 2:46 PM

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Q: Does Apple Pay actually work without an internet connection?

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  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Sep 24, 2015 5:35 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy
    Level 7 (28,975 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 24, 2015 5:35 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy

    Hi

     

    Your Apple Pay equipped device does not need to have an internet connection at the time of purchase. For example, you can use Apple Pay on Apple Watch without having the paired iPhone with you (leaving the watch without access to Wi-Fi or cellular data).

     

    The merchant will need a means of transmitting data to the payment network, but that is entirely on their side.

     

    When you add a payment card to Apple Pay on a device, each combination of card and device (Apple Watch, iPhone, iPad) is given a unique Device Account Number. When you make a purchase, the merchant's terminal receives (via NFC technology - just like with a contactless credit card) your Device Account Number, a one-time security code (specific to that transaction) and some other data required to complete the transaction. Before approving it, your payment network or bank can check your information by reference to the security code, which tells them that the payment is unique and comes from your device.

     

    The merchant doesn't see your payment card number, name, address or any other personally identifying information. Also, Apple doesn't know what you purchased, from where you bought it or how much it cost.

  • by JustSomeOldGuy,

    JustSomeOldGuy JustSomeOldGuy Sep 26, 2015 9:46 AM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iPad
    Sep 26, 2015 9:46 AM in response to Jonathan UK

    Thanks so much!

     

    I called Apple support again to get a definitive answer, and this time was told their documentation says it should work just like you described--no internet required.  He wasn't sure whether the watch needed to be in contact with the phone at time of purchase, but I didn't ask him to pursue that issue since I always take my phone with me.  When my current issue is resolved, I will probably try that later by putting my iPhone into Airplane Mode.

     

    His recommendation to me was to un-pair and re-pair my watch.  He said that tends to fix most issues, so that's what I'm doing now.  I hesitated to do that initially because validation of my card takes several days through my bank.  But since this time I was assured their documentation clearly states internet access is not necessary, I'm proceeding with that option.

     

    I'll update as to my final findings.

     

     

    P.S. Your avatar is just how I have my own watch face configured.  It's so much better than the default of trying to squeeze in everything at once, don't you think?

  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Sep 26, 2015 9:50 AM in response to JustSomeOldGuy
    Level 7 (28,975 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 26, 2015 9:50 AM in response to JustSomeOldGuy

    You're welcome!

     

    The watch certainly does not need to be in contact with the iPhone at the time of purchase. You can leave your iPhone switched off and at home and still pay with your watch somewhere else.

     

    You did not explain that you were having issues using Apple Pay with your watch. If you would like to describe the issue, I may be able to offer some suggestions.

  • by JustSomeOldGuy,

    JustSomeOldGuy JustSomeOldGuy Sep 26, 2015 11:01 AM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iPad
    Sep 26, 2015 11:01 AM in response to Jonathan UK

    I didn't mention that?  Oh.  My bad!

     

    I've yet to complete a purchase with Apple Pay, so I'm definitely a newbie as far as that's concerned.  As I told the Apple support rep, my watch displayed the message "Card Unavailable" when I tried to use it, even though an image of the card was clearly visible on the watch face.  It may be I was simply doing something wrong at the time.  There were a lot of impatient people in line behind me, so I gave up without trying too hard.

     

    I have an iPhone 5s (no Apple Pay there) paired to my watch.  That seems to be a point of confusion all by itself, as most people are using a 6.  So far clerks have been of little help, as they haven't received any specific training.  There may be an issue that mine is a debit card, so it may require verification at time of purchase after all to ensure funds are present.  (No one seems quite sure about that.)  It was apparent at the time I sometimes wasn't pushing my button twice in rapid enough succession.  (I've since practiced!)  Or perhaps my card wasn't properly verified first.  My bank never gave me security code to enter on my iPhone that I can remember.  So next time I'll ensure my card shows Verified on the Passbook app before trying Apple Pay again.

     

     

     

     

    IMO, this whole process could be made a lot more user-friendly.  Most people would probably have just given up by now.  I mean, many don't want to bother with something new when the old way works fine.  But as for me, I want to know all about it even if I never use it.  LOL

  • by Jonathan UK,Solvedanswer

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Sep 26, 2015 1:25 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy
    Level 7 (28,975 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 26, 2015 1:25 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy

    JustSomeOldGuy wrote:

     

    my watch displayed the message "Card Unavailable" when I tried to use it, even though an image of the card was clearly visible on the watch face.  It may be I was simply doing something wrong at the time.

     

    That message suggests that your watch may not have been presented correctly to the terminal. After double-pressing the side button and seeing your card on the screen:

     

    - The watch face should be facing and parallel with the terminal (you should not be able to see the watch face whilst paying), aligned centrally with the contactless logo on the terminal screen and closer than 10cm.

    - It should be held in that position for up to a few seconds, until you hear the confirmation beep and haptic pulse.

  • by JustSomeOldGuy,

    JustSomeOldGuy JustSomeOldGuy Sep 26, 2015 1:27 PM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iPad
    Sep 26, 2015 1:27 PM in response to Jonathan UK

    I will definitely do that.  Thanks again!!!

  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Sep 26, 2015 2:43 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy
    Level 7 (28,975 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 26, 2015 2:43 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy

    My pleasure!

     

    It is not always necessary to verify when adding a card. That step is at the bank's discretion (and involves verifying your identity, rather than verifying a card).

  • by JustSomeOldGuy,

    JustSomeOldGuy JustSomeOldGuy Sep 27, 2015 9:46 PM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iPad
    Sep 27, 2015 9:46 PM in response to Jonathan UK

    Today I tried Apple Pay again, and it worked perfectly.  It's clear to me now that I didn't know to hold my watch wrist upside-down and wait.  You were also right about not needing my iPhone, let alone an internet connection.  I forgot my phone and the watch worked anyway.  Hooray!!!

  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Sep 28, 2015 1:17 AM in response to JustSomeOldGuy
    Level 7 (28,975 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 28, 2015 1:17 AM in response to JustSomeOldGuy

    Glad to hear that you are up and running with Apple Pay!

  • by dreamn.jane,

    dreamn.jane dreamn.jane Feb 24, 2016 4:56 PM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (4 points)
    iCloud
    Feb 24, 2016 4:56 PM in response to Jonathan UK

    HI Jonathan,

    You were so helpful with JustSomeOldGuy's Apple Pay concern last fall that I am hoping you can help me also.

    Recently my iPad Air and new iPad Pro started to act strangely. I started getting popup messages frequently on both devices saying that I needed to update either my Apple ID, iCloud information, or my gmail address and then tried to allow me to redirect to Settings to do this. I believe I allowed this once, but the correct information was already there. When it happened again (and again and again), I just ignored the messages.

     

    Still, my iPad started doing other quirky things, like not recognizing a password upon login when I had just changed the password. I went through all the saved passwords under Safari in Settings to manually update all my current passwords from my iPad Air to my iPad Pro (I had thought this was automatically synced). I updated myself on all the security strategies recommended for iPad users, but pretty much all of the ones pertinent to my situation were already in place. The popup messages eventually stopped, but I'm still getting the "incorrect password" message fairly often. So I continued to scour my iPads to see what might be going on.

     

    AND THIS IS WHERE APPLE PAY COMES IN. I wasn't even aware of this new feature on my iPad Pro and therefore had never entered any information into it directly within Settings. But when I opened it up, it showed the last four digits of my current credit card AND SOMEONE ELSE'S EMAIL ADDRESS, someone I've never heard of before. Of course, I wrote theor address down and immediately replaced it with mine, had my credit card changed, and talked with Apple Care, who put my iPad through some security measures. So far it looks like no real monetary damage was inflicted. But the whole thing just creeps me out, since I don't know if this person hacked into any of my other information.

     

    I've searched and searched for anyone who can make sense of how someone else's email address ended up in my Apple Pay, while at the same time it looks like someone has been trying to get my key passwords out of me. You are the one person who seems to know quite a bit about Apple Pay. That's why I'm wondering if you, or someone you know, can make any sense of what I've described to you.

     

    I apologize for the very long "question." I thought it best to give you all I can up front, rather than going back and forth to fill in the gaps. I am grateful for any help you can give me--about what may be going on here and/or any further steps I need to take.

  • by JustSomeOldGuy,

    JustSomeOldGuy JustSomeOldGuy Feb 24, 2016 5:42 PM in response to dreamn.jane
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iPad
    Feb 24, 2016 5:42 PM in response to dreamn.jane

    I'm intrigued!

     

    Your iPad Pro shouldn't have Apple Pay on it.  Mine doesn't.  The only devices which support Apple Pay are the iPhone6, 6+, 6S, 6S+, and the Apple Watch.  iPads don't have NFC chips in them, so they can't be used to pay for things with Apple Pay even if you wanted to.

     

    What did Apple have to say about this?  I wonder if they even believed you, because what you say doesn't really make sense.

     

    Do you still have Apple Pay on your iPad Pro?  Perhaps it was some sort of malicious program masquerading as Apple Pay.  Can you post a photo of your iPad Pro showing Apple Pay on the screen?

  • by Jonathan UK,Helpful

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Feb 25, 2016 8:07 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy
    Level 7 (28,975 points)
    Apple Watch
    Feb 25, 2016 8:07 PM in response to JustSomeOldGuy

    JustSomeOldGuy wrote:

     

    Your iPad Pro shouldn't have Apple Pay on it.  Mine doesn't.  The only devices which support Apple Pay are the iPhone6, 6+, 6S, 6S+, and the Apple Watch. ..

     

    Perhaps it was some sort of malicious program masquerading as Apple Pay.

     

    This is incorrect.

     

    iPad Pro includes support for setting up and using Apple Pay to make purchases within apps, but not for making payments within stores:

     

    "You can start using Apple Pay to make purchases as soon as you add a credit or debit card, including store-issued cards, to Wallet. Here's what you need:

    ..

      • iPad Pro, iPad Air 2, or iPad mini 3 and later (Apple Pay within apps) .. "

     

    More information:

    Set up and use Apple Pay on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support

  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Feb 25, 2016 6:04 AM in response to dreamn.jane
    Level 7 (28,975 points)
    Apple Watch
    Feb 25, 2016 6:04 AM in response to dreamn.jane

    dreamn.jane wrote:

     

    Hi Jonathan,

     

     

    .. when I opened it up, it showed the last four digits of my current credit card AND SOMEONE ELSE'S EMAIL ADDRESS, someone I've never heard of before.

     

    Hi

     

    If Apple Pay had not yet been set up on your iPad Pro, neither the card nor the email address were yet being used on it in conjunction with Apple Pay.

     

    The card was likely shown because it was on file in your Apple ID / iTunes Store account. Where this is a supported card (for Apple Pay), it is suggested within Settings > Wallet & Apple Pay, ready for you to also add to Apple Pay (by confirming the card's security code).

     

    The email address may have been shown due to a discrepancy in your Apple ID and/or Contacts information. If you did not go through similar steps when speaking with Apple Support, it may help to run through the following checks now:

     

    • Via a web browser, sign in to Manage Your Apple ID: https://appleid.apple.com
      • In the Account section, under the heading Contactable At: check that only your own email addresses are listed. Remove any others by clicking on Edit.
    • On your iPad, in the Contacts app:
      • Open your own contact card: check that it contains your Apple ID email address and that any other email addresses recorded there are only your own.
      • When viewing the list of all contacts, search for the email address that you found in Settings. If it exists within a contact card, either delete the card (if not required) or check that none of your own information is also recorded within that contact card.
    • On your iPad, go to: Settings > Mail, Contacts, Calendars:
      • In the Accounts section: check that only your own email accounts are listed (including iCloud).
      • In the Contacts section: check that My Info is using your contact card.
    • On your iPad, go to: Settings > General > Siri > My Info - check that your contact card is selected.
    • On your iPad, go to: Settings > Messages > Send & Receive - check that only your own email addresses are listed.

     

    In order to conveniently sync contacts and other data automatically between your devices, you may wish to enable iCloud settings on each iPad (and on any other Apple devices):

    - On your iPad, go to: Settings > iCloud - for example, you may wish to turn on Contacts, Keychain, Safari, Calendar, etc.

     

    If you have not already reset your Apple ID password, you may wish to consider doing so. You will need to sign in to all Apple services again afterwards.

    - Change your Apple ID password - Apple Support

     

    Otherwise, one reason why you may be receiving prompts to enter a password is if you have set up app-specific passwords (eg for iMessage and FaceTime). If so, sign in to these services using that password. To check whether this is the case:

     

  • by JustSomeOldGuy,

    JustSomeOldGuy JustSomeOldGuy Feb 25, 2016 8:22 PM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iPad
    Feb 25, 2016 8:22 PM in response to Jonathan UK

    This guy Jonathan is great!  I'd never have guessed Apple Pay was under Settings on iPads.  Not that I'll ever use it, and I doubt Apple Pay will get much traction with online merchants.  But just the same, kudos to Jonathan for even knowing such a thing.  I had done searches for using Apple Pay on iPads, but turned up nothing relevant.  This guy is nothing short of amazing!

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