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Q: Final Cut Pro X H265 Support

As a Final Cut Pro user from the get go, I'm wondering when apple will offer the native H265 capability.

Now that Adobe Premier is offering native H265 support, it's tough not to give their product a serious look.  

Anyone hear anything on the H265 FCPX support front?

Mac Pro, OS X Yosemite (10.10.5)

Posted on Sep 27, 2015 12:30 PM

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Q: Final Cut Pro X H265 Support

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  • by Russ H,

    Russ H Russ H Feb 10, 2016 8:07 AM in response to Jim-H
    Level 7 (21,800 points)
    Quicktime
    Feb 10, 2016 8:07 AM in response to Jim-H

    Fair enough. I think Tom's point is that comments made on this user forum about the need for H.265 won't reach the people at Apple you want to reach. The best place is via FCP X Feedback.

     

    Russ

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Feb 10, 2016 10:03 PM in response to Jim-H
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Feb 10, 2016 10:03 PM in response to Jim-H

    Jim-H wrote:

     

    Latest update on 2/4/16 …

    latest update:

    Technicolor leaves  HEVC advanced patent pool

     

    .... "bag of  hurt" - visionairy …

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky Feb 10, 2016 10:26 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    Feb 10, 2016 10:26 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    and goes to a proprietary model licensed to each manufacturer, who in turn will make their own variant f probably layered on MPEG-2 transport, MPEG-4 GOP, in different kinds of wrappers. more duelling formats coming down the road, more users complaining about why FCP doesn't support the latest, greatest XYZ camera from Canonysonic that's in a unique format unlike the version in the ZYX camera from Panyanon.

  • by James Cude,

    James Cude James Cude Feb 12, 2016 1:07 PM in response to wecreatetv
    Level 4 (1,424 points)
    Feb 12, 2016 1:07 PM in response to wecreatetv

    for what it's worth, RockyMountains Movie Converter is great at transcoding h265 to prores: https://sourceforge.net/projects/rockymountainsmovieconverter/files/

  • by Shompa,

    Shompa Shompa Feb 12, 2016 11:42 PM in response to wecreatetv
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Feb 12, 2016 11:42 PM in response to wecreatetv

    Its a bit funny. Apple where the champion of industry standard H264 and build in acceleration for it OS wide back in 2004. That is years before PCs could play 1080P content. Now Windows10 have filesystem support for H265 so icons are shown correctly, not in OSX.

     

    There are some problems with H265 and its one of the reasons why H265 isn't available for example on AppleTV4 even if A8 SoC was the first SoC with H265 decoder/encoder.

     

    And here is the problem: Only the latest Intel chips Skylake have H265 decoder and a quick sync H265 encoder. Apple therefore have a fragmented market. Every single Mac without dGPU beside latest iMac don't have H265 decoder or encoder. This is why AppleTV4 don't have 4K support even if A8 can manage it because the best thing with AppleTV have always been Airplay. Airplay in 4K can't be done without Quicksync encoder. Only in latest 27inch iMac.

     

    PC don't have this problem since Adobe /Sony can release software with H265 support and don't care if the hardware have H265 decoding or not. "But does decoder matter?". Yes it does. Take any mac without encoder and try to play a H265 720P/1080P.  Even with 100% CPU time 720P barely works. Forget 1080P.


    This is one of the problems with Intels crappy graphics cards that are bundled on almost all macs.

    Yes: Apple should release a h265 plugin for hardware that support decoding, but knowing the internet most people will be angry. Imagine buying the latest small Retina iMac with Broadwell and no H265 decoder.

     

    Later this year Apple should roll out hardware with h265. Maybe even updating a 3 year old MacPro but Tim is more about making TV shows.

     

    This is again evidence that Apple should dump Intel and move to ARM. That would give Apple enormous advantage since they can combine hardware and software. "We want Siri" = The noise cancellation DSP in A5. "We want TouchID" = Security Enclave in A7. "We want H265" = Encoder/Decoder in A8. "we want hey Siri" = M7 coprocessor.  (and Intel introduced listening DSPs in Skylake).

  • by BunsOfGlory,

    BunsOfGlory BunsOfGlory Apr 8, 2016 6:47 PM in response to wecreatetv
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Apr 8, 2016 6:47 PM in response to wecreatetv

    I just wanted to second the need for h.265 in Final Cut Pro X. Since Premier has native support for the codec, I will probably be switching over once I get my Samsung NX 1.

  • by EyeWingsuit,

    EyeWingsuit EyeWingsuit May 28, 2016 10:17 AM in response to BunsOfGlory
    Level 1 (4 points)
    May 28, 2016 10:17 AM in response to BunsOfGlory

    Old thread that I came across while researching; One doesn't need an HEVC Streaming server.

    All Apple and Android devices in the past two years already support HEVC for display.

    Most television panels/displays have been supporting HEVC for at least two years.

    All major hosting sites support HEVC and determine use based on client side need.

    HEVC can be wrapped in a variety of packages (ala Quicktime), but is also a standard. Apple was the champion of h.264, it seems hypocritical that h.265 isn't supported yet. The standard is now nearly 3 years old. Several "low end" software tools offer encode to h.265.

     

    Regardless, there is no reason to fear, hate, dislike, or not access HEVC. It is a long-term, future standard. And it looks incredible. In my "Beyond the Full HD presentations, I show an uncompressed HD source vs HEVC render in a split screen, displayed in a ProRes codec. It's incredibly rare the audience can tell which is which whether looking on a projection or display monitor.

     

    Loving HEVC over here, using Premiere for the encode, still re-learning FCPX.

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky May 28, 2016 10:23 AM in response to EyeWingsuit
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    May 28, 2016 10:23 AM in response to EyeWingsuit

    CComponents of the standard are still not finalized. Yes, it should be supported by Apple. It isn't. There are only users here. Nothing anyone here can do about it. No point ******* to us. Use feedback or write to Tim Cook or both.

  • by EyeWingsuit,

    EyeWingsuit EyeWingsuit May 28, 2016 10:37 AM in response to Tom Wolsky
    Level 1 (4 points)
    May 28, 2016 10:37 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

    Tom,
    I was merely replying to the discussion where it's (inaccurately) claimed that .h265 isn't settled out. It is/has been, unless you have information that ITU doesn't.

    Obviously, Apple will do what they'll do, but whatever the reason for not implementing/supporting on the encode side has nothing to do with it "not being finalized." It has been. Apple products have been decoding it for at least two generations of iOS devices. The decoder is installed on the silicon, same as it is for every recent Apple computer (built into Intel chipsets; Apple has elected to prevent access). 

     

    Once again, I understand Apple doesn't read this forum, doesn't care what people say here, etc. I also understand that some folks have the inaccurate opinion that Apple doesn't support HEVC because "HEVC isn't settled out yet." I can't influence the former, but can influence the latter.
    Have a great weekend!

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky May 28, 2016 10:52 AM in response to EyeWingsuit
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    May 28, 2016 10:52 AM in response to EyeWingsuit

    "Additional 3D-HEVC extensions for 3D video were completed in early 2015. Further extensions remain in development for completion in early 2016, covering video containing rendered graphics, text, or animation as well as (or instead of) camera-captured video scenes."

     

    AFAIK the graphics extensions are still not finalized.

     

    "I understand Apple doesn't read this forum, doesn't care what people say here"

     

    That's not quite true. The forum is read, but I don't know that anything said here gets processed. I do know that everything in feedback is processed, analyzed, and catalogued.

     

    The whole thread is kind of pointless whinging in my view.

     

    Just to add, maybe WebM would be a better direction to go for delivery.

  • by EyeWingsuit,

    EyeWingsuit EyeWingsuit May 28, 2016 11:05 AM in response to Tom Wolsky
    Level 1 (4 points)
    May 28, 2016 11:05 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

    <"Additional 3D-HEVC extensions for 3D video were completed in early 2015. Further extensions remain in development for completion in early 2016, covering video containing rendered graphics, text, or animation as well as (or instead of) camera-captured video scenes.">

     

    And these were ratified just before NAB 2016 aka early 2016.


    I apologize that I've stepped into your pool of power, Tom. Note taken.

     

    HEVC is here to stay, no different than those that whined, moaned, and complained for years about DV over Beta, HDV over uncompressed 4:2:2, avi over Quicktime packaging, anything else over REAL Networks, Apple vs PC, Premiere vs Final Cut Studio, UHD over HD, SHV over UHD, and whatever else new comes down the pike.

     

    Matroska has a great image, albeit inefficient for encoding, and not much support from any one (at this time). The UHD "war" is effectively over and HEVC has won. VP9 simply didn't market itself well, and like many things CE, marketing determines the future.
    Regardless, message received. No disagreeing with the mod.

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky May 28, 2016 11:13 AM in response to EyeWingsuit
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    May 28, 2016 11:13 AM in response to EyeWingsuit

    DDidn't know about the NAB agreement.

     

    IM not a mod. You can disagree with me all you want as I can with you.

     

    WebM is powering YouTube and making a huge difference in quality. Like it not YT delivers more content than any other platform in the world.

  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m May 30, 2016 1:12 AM in response to EyeWingsuit
    Level 5 (5,517 points)
    Video
    May 30, 2016 1:12 AM in response to EyeWingsuit

    There is 3rd party support for HEVC if you need it: (http://digisns.com/2015/04/import-nx1-h-265-to-fcp-x/) — that will get you to ProRes.

     

    Agree. Disagree. Just keep it clean and civil.

     

    There are no moderators here (although foul or "colorful" language will be automatically edited out.) Tom is a very generous guy with his time. His level ten is to be respected — it represents the number of solutions and helpful replies he's given in his participation here which has been more than anybody else... ever... and still going strong.

     

    Members of Apple's Support Community actually do read these forums although they do not generally become actively involved. They rely on users like Tom to get the job done and as a group, we usually do. New feature improvements to Apple Recommends

    HEVC is here to stay, no different than those that whined, moaned, and complained for years about DV over Beta, HDV over uncompressed 4:2:2, avi over Quicktime packaging, anything else over REAL Networks, Apple vs PC, Premiere vs Final Cut Studio, UHD over HD, SHV over UHD, and whatever else new comes down the pike.

     

    1) There are licensing issues with HEVC.

    2) It takes 10 times as long to encode than H.264 (Is that with... or without hardware acceleration? I don't know. Hope for its sake it's with.)

    3) You get exactly the same quality for 1/2 the footprint @ 10 times the amount of time to encode. Where's the benefit? Saves bandwidth? Why? Bandwidth is getting cheaper and faster all the time. At the rate of video consumption over the internet, h.265 would be a bottleneck from the production side.

     

    When I first started working in video, H.264 took at least five times longer to encode than to play it in real time (hardware acceleration has brought that down to roughly 1.5 times real time). So how did it gain general acceptance? The visual quality is vastly superior - outstanding actually. Properly encoded, can't tell the difference between ProRes and H.264. (MP4 and older *delivery* codecs all looked terrible in comparison.) Worth the wait. The resultant file is 1/10th the size of ProRes 422. And the licensing became free to use for end users. At 10 times the encoding time for the same quality, I don't see a lot of people feeling like it's worth the wait.

     

    In case you don't remember (or never knew), licensing issues pretty much killed the GIF format. It's been making a comeback lately because the patents finally expired and it doesn't have to be licensed anymore.

     

    This is not a contest of H.265 vs H.264. H.265 has to win over the end user to gain acceptance.

     

    So far: HEVC is not "here" at all.

  • by FMHAP,

    FMHAP FMHAP Jul 11, 2016 3:41 PM in response to Jim-H
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Video
    Jul 11, 2016 3:41 PM in response to Jim-H

    Me too-- I have a 4K signage device and a 4K monitor that need content.

     

    4K is done with H.265 only:

     

    https://www.brightsign.biz/application/files/9414/5755/0911/Brightsign_4k_datash eet_01282016-printVersion.pdf

     

    COME ON, APPLE.

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky Jul 11, 2016 3:44 PM in response to FMHAP
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    Jul 11, 2016 3:44 PM in response to FMHAP

    USE FEEDBACK. THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR.

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