Bill St. Clair

Q: Conversations not grouped by subject in El Capitan mail

I get emails from Fail2Ban on one of the web servers I manage. Each one has a subject of the form "[Fail2Ban] WordPress: banned 45.41.92.66". They're all the same except for the IP address ("45.41.92.66"). Before El Capitan, all the messages with identical subjects, in this case the same IP address, were grouped into a conversation, with a handy dandy counter plainly visible. That made it easy to see which IP addresses were attempting logins so often that I needed to ban them permanently, not just for 10 minutes at a time, as my Fail2Ban is configured to do.

 

El Capitan mail organizes messages by actual conversations, i.e. messages that are responses to an original, but it doesn't group emails with identical subjects that are not actually part of the same conversation. This is likely correct for many email conversations, but it doesn't work for these Fail2Ban messages. I would love to have a preference to select the old way of grouping by only the text in the subject.

Mail, OS X El Capitan (10.11)

Posted on Oct 1, 2015 3:38 AM

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Q: Conversations not grouped by subject in El Capitan mail

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  • by recngamb,

    recngamb recngamb Dec 8, 2015 4:09 PM in response to TimtheRockstar
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Dec 8, 2015 4:09 PM in response to TimtheRockstar

    Just installed OSX update, same crappy behaviour

  • by TimtheRockstar,

    TimtheRockstar TimtheRockstar Dec 8, 2015 4:40 PM in response to recngamb
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 8, 2015 4:40 PM in response to recngamb

    Well I was about to, will, but too bad it does not fix this issue.

    I submitted another feedback anyway.

  • by Kannan Mohan,

    Kannan Mohan Kannan Mohan Dec 17, 2015 5:37 AM in response to TimtheRockstar
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 17, 2015 5:37 AM in response to TimtheRockstar

    I was having a huge expectation about this release. But unfortunately some of the good features has been removed  and this is one of them.

  • by m@lv,

    m@lv m@lv Dec 19, 2015 1:48 PM in response to Bill St. Clair
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 19, 2015 1:48 PM in response to Bill St. Clair

    I found a work around that has saved me. 

     

    I just updated to El Capitan and got the same problem.  Going back with Time Machine, I found that I had been using the same version of mail before the update, Mail 9.2.  I used Time Machine to go back to the pre El Capitan version of Mail 9.2 and found the same problem.  It appears that El Capitan changed some utility outside of Mail 9.2 that causes this problem.  Going back to a pre-El Capitan Mail version doesn't help.  Apple needs to find out which utility it is that was broken.  This is totally unacceptable.  We need the option to go back to grouping messages by Subject.

     

    One work around is to have Smart Mailboxes that automatically move the mail that has the Subject(s) in question to a new Smart Mailbox.  The Smart Mailbox I created has the same name as the Subject so it is easy to spot.  When I created the Smart Mailbox, I created the rule that does this.  Mail moved all messages with this Subject into the Smart Mailbox.  Worked great.  I still see the new message in the Inbox, and can go to the Smart Mailbox to see all of them.  This works for me.  Now I need to create a Smart Mailbox for all of the Subjects I want grouped.

  • by TimtheRockstar,

    TimtheRockstar TimtheRockstar Dec 19, 2015 5:27 PM in response to m@lv
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 19, 2015 5:27 PM in response to m@lv

    Yet again, this is a "workaround" that we should not have to do.

    It was working with functionality that ONLY APPLE had...now it is not.

    Mind you this is the case also on iOS 9.2 as well, so it was a fundamental mindset change in why it should work this way.

     

    Idiots would change this.

     

    Just give us a **** check box, slider button, or something and let us choose!!!

  • by dknelson99,

    dknelson99 dknelson99 Jan 31, 2016 5:37 AM in response to TimtheRockstar
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 31, 2016 5:37 AM in response to TimtheRockstar

    None of these "workarounds" help me at all.  I run a decent sized discussion forum.  To keep up with all that is going on, I get copies of all new posts emailed to me.  Several hundred per day.  It was so easy when they grouped by subject as they once did because I could ready the first post in the group and know if I needed to read all the others of that subject and reply.  I have no way of knowing the title of a new subject so can't possibly setup smart mailboxes or anything else to group them.  The old way worked perfectly for my needs.

  • by Lisbeth Zachs,

    Lisbeth Zachs Lisbeth Zachs Jan 31, 2016 8:19 AM in response to dknelson99
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 31, 2016 8:19 AM in response to dknelson99

    I have a similar problem like dknelson99. I have 100 of mail from a forum and the subjects can me of any kind related to FamilySearch activities in Sweden. It is terribly hard to handle, when having to change to sort by subject alternated by when it arrived.

     

    So hopefully you all go to http://www.apple.com/feedback/mail.html and let them know what we think about stupid change.

  • by lnail,

    lnail lnail Feb 10, 2016 4:46 AM in response to Bill St. Clair
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Feb 10, 2016 4:46 AM in response to Bill St. Clair

    Does anyone know if AirMail offers the ability to do this?

     

    I am going to lose my mind.  30-year Mac user, just upgraded to EC, and am pi$$ed to say the least.  This is the stupidest thing that Apple has done in a while.

  • by recngamb,

    recngamb recngamb Mar 23, 2016 1:32 PM in response to Bill St. Clair
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 23, 2016 1:32 PM in response to Bill St. Clair

    One more useless update, but now we have new improved notes!

  • by atb802,

    atb802 atb802 Jun 28, 2016 8:31 AM in response to recngamb
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 28, 2016 8:31 AM in response to recngamb

    It took so much time, and this error is still unresolved. Apple do something, because we can use e-mail programs competition.

  • by recngamb,

    recngamb recngamb Jul 15, 2016 5:45 AM in response to atb802
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Jul 15, 2016 5:45 AM in response to atb802

    Does anyone tried sierra beta? Is mail app behaviour still broken in new mac os?

  • by atb802,

    atb802 atb802 Jul 15, 2016 5:58 AM in response to recngamb
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 15, 2016 5:58 AM in response to recngamb

    Yes. On macOS Sierra Mail.app is still broken.

  • by Poetnerd,

    Poetnerd Poetnerd Oct 3, 2016 8:33 AM in response to atb802
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Oct 3, 2016 8:33 AM in response to atb802

    I put off downgrade to El Capitan until the last possible moment.

    It appears that Mavericks was the last useful version of Mail.app, at least as far as conversations are concerned.

     

    I just submitted the following feedback:

     

    Apple says more support to business and enterprise users is important, but with each MacOS update, the Mail app makes life HARDER for those of us who get a LOT of email.

     

    In Yosemite, the key command "open conversation and go to first unread message" went away and never came back.  The message display of the "next" message, when deleting members of a conversation got TOTALLY messed up, and caused unwanted change of meaning of "next message". This bug was never fixed, although the behavior subtly changed with El Capitan.

     

    With El Capitan, someone decided that messages lacking "Re:" in the subject line no longer are grouped in a conversation with NO way for those of us who use this EVERY DAY to get the old behavior.

     

    Sierra left all these broken.

     

    I guess I have to switch to Microsoft.

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