Hezeq

Q: Secure Empty Trash missing on El Capitan?

Secure Empty Trash missing on El Capitan? Anyone know why? Can I get that back?

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014)

Posted on Oct 5, 2015 5:17 AM

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Q: Secure Empty Trash missing on El Capitan?

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  • by QuickTimeKirk,Helpful

    QuickTimeKirk QuickTimeKirk Oct 5, 2015 6:21 AM in response to Hezeq
    Level 9 (53,178 points)
    Oct 5, 2015 6:21 AM in response to Hezeq
  • by Ethan Duffey,

    Ethan Duffey Ethan Duffey Oct 10, 2015 6:22 AM in response to Hezeq
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 10, 2015 6:22 AM in response to Hezeq

    I found a way! All you have to do is drag whatever you want to delete into the trash, right click, and click "delete immediately". It works on any deletable file (other than files required by the system).

  • by QuickTimeKirk,

    QuickTimeKirk QuickTimeKirk Oct 10, 2015 6:26 AM in response to Ethan Duffey
    Level 9 (53,178 points)
    Oct 10, 2015 6:26 AM in response to Ethan Duffey

    That just empties the Trash and doesn't "securely" delete the file.

  • by !cultOfApple,

    !cultOfApple !cultOfApple Oct 20, 2015 11:54 AM in response to Hezeq
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 20, 2015 11:54 AM in response to Hezeq

    "Secure Empty Trash" is gone as per their posting:

     

    Anyway, as long as UNIX is still around, here are 3 commands you could use - you could also create an alias for anyone of these...

    1. rm -rP /<path>
    2. srm -rfv -s /path (try the m and z switches for more options)
    3. diskutil secureErase freespace LEVEL /Volumes/<drive>
  • by pr1uk,

    pr1uk pr1uk Oct 24, 2015 12:42 AM in response to !cultOfApple
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 24, 2015 12:42 AM in response to !cultOfApple

    Why apple OS cannot have an inbuilt secure delete built in i find incredible after all 3rd party programs are out there that can do this, anyway like others i went mad seeing the secure option missing. After a lot of reading i have no create a folder called 'trash' and any sensitive files i manually place in this folder then when they need deleting using the oommand key and space i open terminal and in terminal i type 'srm -rv trash' enter then as i read it a 35 pass delete system deletes the files and folder securely.


    My question is if it's that easy for me to do this manually using terminal then how come some programer cannot incorporate this into the OS so this could all be done with a mouse click ?


  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 24, 2015 2:42 AM in response to pr1uk
    Level 6 (17,685 points)
    Oct 24, 2015 2:42 AM in response to pr1uk

    pr1uk wrote:

    My question is if it's that easy for me to do this manually using terminal then how come some programer cannot incorporate this into the OS so this could all be done with a mouse click ?

    They could, but it doesn't actually erase the memory cells on SSDs that hold the file's data & it may or may not do so on the sectors on a conventional mechanical hard drive. All this will do on an SSD is to wear it out slightly faster. This is true for the secure versions of the rm command & all the so-called "shredder" third party utilities. It is a consequence of how the storage devices work internally & cannot be overcome with software running on the host computer.

     

    Also, all of the passes of the 35 pass erase were never intended to be used on any device. Most are intended for ancient MFM hard drives & of absolutely no value on modern ones. For the details, refer to Secure Deletion of Data from Magnetic and Solid-State Memory by Peter Gutmann, the same Peter Gutmann the 35 pass erase algorithm he wrote is named for. In particular, refer to his first epilogue in that seminal paper, where he says in part:

    In the time since this paper was published, some people have treated the 35-pass overwrite technique described in it more as a kind of voodoo incantation to banish evil spirits than the result of a technical analysis of drive encoding techniques. {...} In fact performing the full 35-pass overwrite is pointless for any drive since it targets a blend of scenarios involving all types of (normally-used) encoding technology, which covers everything back to 30+-year-old MFM methods (if you don't understand that statement, re-read the paper).

  • by benwiggy,

    benwiggy benwiggy Oct 24, 2015 3:04 AM in response to Hezeq
    Level 4 (1,430 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 24, 2015 3:04 AM in response to Hezeq

    If you are concerned for the security of your files, then you should use FileVault to encrypt the whole disk.

     

    On a laptop, I would say that FileVault is essential. On a desktop Mac, not so much, unless you can't guarantee who might have physical access to it.

  • by pr1uk,

    pr1uk pr1uk Oct 24, 2015 3:04 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 24, 2015 3:04 AM in response to R C-R

    Well now i am confused so basically it does not work even on older sita hard drives so all these years i have used the securely delete option on certain files and it may not have done any good at all, they could still all be there ==

  • by Mr. Bacon,

    Mr. Bacon Mr. Bacon Oct 24, 2015 1:31 PM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 24, 2015 1:31 PM in response to R C-R

    So, is this boiling down to saying that secure deletions, simply are not secure? I've use a couple of unmentionable programs for secure deletion, including the previously available Mac secure delete. All, including the onboard Mac version, were effective to the point of me not being able to recover the files, even using fairly sophisticated file recovery software. Some claim an effectiveness which makes the files absolutely unrecoverable, which would be my goal. I've done some online research and it seems widely agreed that some of these programs are very effective.

  • by QuickTimeKirk,

    QuickTimeKirk QuickTimeKirk Oct 24, 2015 1:50 PM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 9 (53,178 points)
    Oct 24, 2015 1:50 PM in response to Mr. Bacon

    It never really worked and that's why Apple removed it.

    No other ones worked, either.

  • by Allan Eckert,

    Allan Eckert Allan Eckert Oct 24, 2015 1:52 PM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 9 (53,700 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 24, 2015 1:52 PM in response to Mr. Bacon

    "I've done some online research and it seems widely agreed that some of these programs are very effective."

     

    Please provide some references to back up that statement.

  • by Mr. Bacon,

    Mr. Bacon Mr. Bacon Oct 24, 2015 9:46 PM in response to Allan Eckert
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 24, 2015 9:46 PM in response to Allan Eckert

    Every time I name a reference, people start crying, calling me names, accusing me of being a salesman, and the posts get deleted (reminds me of kindergarten, and I'll probably get a spanking for saying that), however if you search the web for effective secure file removal, you'll find similar results. There are various articles in well known online computer sites, which list various software programs for Mac or PC, and rate their effectiveness in secure removal. I've tested the effectiveness of file removal of 2 of the mentioned options as well as the previously available Mac "secure delete" using 2 different file recovery programs and was unable to locate or recover any of the securely deleted files nor any trace of them. My concern is less about grandmothers and children than it is for the IRS and other governmental control groups. I suspect their recovery capability is far superior to mine. The problem, apparently comes in the case of SSD, there are conflicting reports about how effectively these can be erased. Apparently work is being done but it remains to be seen how effective these will be.

     

    All I can say with certainty is that the files I've deleted using different "secure delete" options, were indeed unrecoverable by me using two of the reportedly highly effective file recovery programs.

  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 25, 2015 2:23 AM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 6 (17,685 points)
    Oct 25, 2015 2:23 AM in response to Mr. Bacon

    Mr. Bacon wrote:

    All I can say with certainty is that the files I've deleted using different "secure delete" options, were indeed unrecoverable by me using two of the reportedly highly effective file recovery programs.

    There is more you can say, like the name & version number of those two programs, the kind of drive you were using them on, the OS X version you were running at the time, & what recovery mode(s) of those programs you were using.

  • by Allan Eckert,

    Allan Eckert Allan Eckert Oct 25, 2015 7:08 AM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 9 (53,700 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2015 7:08 AM in response to Mr. Bacon

    "Every time I name a reference, people start crying, calling me names, accusing me of being a salesman, and the posts get deleted (reminds me of kindergarten, and I'll probably get a spanking for saying that), however if you search the web for effective secure file removal, you'll find similar results."

     

    I do not understand that at all. I have never had a problem with stating references at all. Certainly no one has accused me of be a salesman that is for sure. I don't understand why you should have that problem.

     

    As to the second part of your statement about if I search I will find effective secure file removal software, I have searched and found none so far. Hence my reason for asking you for a reference to where you found this information. Until you can do that I have no confidence in anything you say.

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