Hezeq

Q: Secure Empty Trash missing on El Capitan?

Secure Empty Trash missing on El Capitan? Anyone know why? Can I get that back?

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014)

Posted on Oct 5, 2015 5:17 AM

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Q: Secure Empty Trash missing on El Capitan?

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  • by Barney-15E,

    Barney-15E Barney-15E Oct 25, 2015 7:17 AM in response to Allan Eckert
    Level 9 (50,379 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 25, 2015 7:17 AM in response to Allan Eckert

    I do not understand that at all. I have never had a problem with stating references at all. Certainly no one has accused me of be a salesman that is for sure. I don't understand why you should have that problem.

    He's the only known proponent of MacKeeper found in the wild.

    It appears that most buyers found it completely useless: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2996814/security/mackeeper-buyers-ask-for-refunds -in-droves-following-lawsuit.html

  • by woodmeister50,

    woodmeister50 woodmeister50 Oct 25, 2015 7:54 AM in response to Hezeq
    Level 5 (5,589 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 25, 2015 7:54 AM in response to Hezeq

    Modern SSDs do not require secure delete.  Either via TRIM or Garbage Collection

    (which is now pretty much on all SSDs) will eventually reset any sectors that contain data

    for erased files so that they are ready for reuse and therefor increase their speed.

    This occurs during idle time on the drive.

     

    So, if you were to forcibly erase data in a sector, the next time the Garbage Collection comes around

    it will erase it again, reducing the lifetime of that sector.

     

    If you are concerned about the NSA or some other member of the alphabet soup, better make sure

    you keep your tinfoil hat on, or just don't do anything illegal!

  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 25, 2015 9:07 AM in response to woodmeister50
    Level 6 (17,685 points)
    Oct 25, 2015 9:07 AM in response to woodmeister50

    woodmeister50 wrote:

    Modern SSDs do not require secure delete.  Either via TRIM or Garbage Collection

    (which is now pretty much on all SSDs) will eventually reset any sectors that contain data

    for erased files so that they are ready for reuse and therefor increase their speed.

    This occurs during idle time on the drive.

    The "eventually" qualifier is one reason secure delete cannot realistically be considered reliable for SSDs.

     

    Another is all the complications real & dynamic over provisioning (OP), write amplification (WA), hitting program & erase endurance (P/E) limits, & so on cause for determining which pages & blocks (they aren't sectors) still contain data that need to be erased. If that wasn't bad enough, the efficiency & effectiveness of the TRIM & garbage collection routines vary depending on the Flash Storage processor (FSP) used in the SSD, which in turn further complicates determining how WA, block management, wear-leveling, error correcting code, etc. combine to make this determination that much harder.

     

    For those who are curious about what all that means, several sites like this one provide an overview, but the bottom line is that the OS never knows what the storage cells in an SSD might contain. From a data security standpoint this is, to put it mildly, less than ideal.

  • by Mr. Bacon,

    Mr. Bacon Mr. Bacon Oct 25, 2015 11:09 AM in response to Allan Eckert
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2015 11:09 AM in response to Allan Eckert

    Next post you'll see one of the folks I'm referring to. I did state my experience, which I'll not do again, because I don't like seeing commentaries I've spent my valuable time producing, deleted. The accuracy of Barhey-15E's statement can be easily verified, or nullified, so I'll leave it at that.

     

    One of the secure deletion programs I used was an element of the dreaded program I got hammered for "selling," "being on the payroll of" and so forth, The other, which I hope no-one will use AND which is free, so my cut of the take will be minimal, is Permanent Eraser for Mac; available in the MacApp store and elsewhere. The recovery tools I used were also the feared and dreaded program of many uses the mention of which got several of my posts deleted and the other, which, once again I hope no one uses, and the company is too stingy to share their profits with Mr. Bacon is EaseUS Data Recovery Wizard for Mac... I imagine its been proven that if one purchases this program one's relatives will be cursed with impetigo or syphilis, so remember my warning before calling me names or purchasing either of these fearsome programs. AND there's the fact that neither were able to recover the files deleted by any of the supposedly ineffective secure deletion files I used, including the "secure delete" previously available in the Mac OS.

  • by Allan Eckert,

    Allan Eckert Allan Eckert Oct 25, 2015 11:32 AM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 9 (53,766 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2015 11:32 AM in response to Mr. Bacon

    You do realize that if you refrained from all the extraneous comments and innuendo, your message would be so much easier to read.

  • by Mr. Bacon,

    Mr. Bacon Mr. Bacon Oct 25, 2015 12:10 PM in response to Allan Eckert
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2015 12:10 PM in response to Allan Eckert

    Sorry. I'm an author, a professional writer, words are both my weakness and my strength. I'll try to remain dry.

  • by Allan Eckert,

    Allan Eckert Allan Eckert Oct 25, 2015 12:13 PM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 9 (53,766 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2015 12:13 PM in response to Mr. Bacon

    Forget it. After your last message, I have lost all interest in anything you have to say. Why don't you just go back to writing fiction and leave technology alone.

  • by Mr. Bacon,

    Mr. Bacon Mr. Bacon Oct 25, 2015 2:11 PM in response to Allan Eckert
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2015 2:11 PM in response to Allan Eckert

    Well I'm sorry I lack qualification for your assistance in this "support community," but I'll take it as a compliment to my writing skills that I can inspire a reaction from the totally disinterested, thanks!

     

    Which leaves me with the question, is this boiling down to saying that secure deletions, simply are not secure? My experience has been that files I've deleted using the old Macintosh secure deletion and two other programs I've found the files unrecoverable, at least by the software I used...

  • by Barney-15E,

    Barney-15E Barney-15E Oct 25, 2015 2:38 PM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 9 (50,379 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 25, 2015 2:38 PM in response to Mr. Bacon

    Which leaves me with the question, is this boiling down to saying that secure deletions, simply are not secure? My experience has been that files I've deleted using the old Macintosh secure deletion and two other programs I've found the files unrecoverable, at least by the software I used...

    That doesn't alter the fact that it is unreliable. While yours were seemingly sufficiently unrecoverable by you, that doesn't imply that all secure deletes by all people are equally reliable. That is the point of the removal, it cannot be guaranteed to work for everyone. For something in the genre of Secure Delete, it must be 100% reliable.

     

    For spinning platter hard drives, I don't have the expertise to claim it is reliable or not. From my understanding of SSDs, it is completely unreliable as many have explained why.

  • by Mr. Bacon,

    Mr. Bacon Mr. Bacon Oct 25, 2015 4:10 PM in response to Barney-15E
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2015 4:10 PM in response to Barney-15E

    Thank you! Completely sensible... Perhaps one day this old biker (no, not the spandex variety) will be able to travel less offensively in the "civilized" world ... but probably not.

  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 25, 2015 4:33 PM in response to Mr. Bacon
    Level 6 (17,685 points)
    Oct 25, 2015 4:33 PM in response to Mr. Bacon

    Mr. Bacon wrote:

    The other {...} is Permanent Eraser for Mac...

    1. According to the web site, "Permanent Eraser provides an even stronger level of security by implementing the Gutmann Method. This utility overwrites your data thirty-five times..." Please see my earlier comments regarding what Peter Gutmann himself says about this "voodoo incantation."

     

    2. From the Permanent Eraser history page, regarding version 2.6.3, released last March, long before El Capitan was released: "Fixed critical issues where Permanent Eraser failed to work properly on Yosemite."

     

    3. From the FAQ page (emphasis added):

    Can Permanent Eraser erase data from a flash-based drive (SSD, thumb drive, etc.)?

    Due to the differences in how flash-based drives read and write data (versus traditional magnetic media hard drives), it is not recommended to use Permanent Eraser or any other traditional hard drive wiping method on flash-based drives. At this time, there does not seem to be a reliable method via software to erase data from flash-based drives. The best advice is to encrypt your drive, which can help provide some measure of protection for your data.

    However, if Permanent Eraser that a file is located on a SSD, the file will only be erased once to prevent unnecessary overwriting

    For this (& other reasons) I do not have much faith in the claims made for Permanent Eraser made by its author.

  • by funkysnail,

    funkysnail funkysnail Jan 25, 2016 5:14 AM in response to Allan Eckert
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 25, 2016 5:14 AM in response to Allan Eckert

    The only way to insure files are gone is with a drill.

     

    Look up the “Joint Services Publication 440,” a 2001 British government document released by WikiLeaks, the U.K. Ministry of Defence mandates total destruction of top-secret information in order to protect it from “FISs [foreign intelligence services], extremist groups, investigative journalists, and criminals.

     

    Also the sanitisation policies of the other members of the so-called “Five Eyes” intelligence alliance — the U.S., New Zealand, Canada and Australia — are public and read the same. You can't fully wipe any digital media with software and USB memory is only destroyed when the dust is just a few millimeters in length.

     

    These two links will blow your mind!

    https://media.ccc.de/v/camp2015-6799-how_to_destroy_a_laptop_with_top_secrets#vi deo&t=3507

     

    http://docs.niwa.co.nz/library/public/nzsit-400.pdf

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