Sorcerer2006

Q: Disk Space Disappearing

I have a MacBook Pro as follows:

 

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Early 2013)

2.7 GHz Intel Core i7

16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB

 

I have 500GB of SSD and El Capitan just installed about one week ago. I have the latest update to 10.11.

 

Screen Shot 2015-10-20 at 12.54.08 AM.jpg

 

My storage looks like the above showing 95.34 GB free. But my disk space looks like this...

 

Screen Shot 2015-10-20 at 12.55.26 AM.jpg

 

Showing usage of 267.62 GB which should leave me with over 220 GB free.

 

My storage has been steadily reducing itself every day - several days ago I was at 180 GB free and today I'm at 95 GB free. None of the folders I have show any increase in storage. I have used Disk Wave to look more closely at my files and looked at invisible files but cannot find any that would account for this issue.

 

I have rebuilt my disk using disk utility first aid and Cocktail. All current versions. I have reset using the old ZAP PRAM routine.

 

Anyone have any insight into this issue?

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X El Capitan (10.11)

Posted on Oct 20, 2015 1:04 AM

Close

Q: Disk Space Disappearing

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

first Previous Page 3 of 3
  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 21, 2015 12:28 PM in response to Sorcerer2006
    Level 6 (17,633 points)
    Oct 21, 2015 12:28 PM in response to Sorcerer2006

    Sorcerer2006 wrote:

    ... but I believe that users should be able to manage their space by adjusting the size and selection of files they choose to store on their hard drive. And I believe they should have tools that can tell them how much available space they have without any hocus-pocus.

    You can adjust the selection of files you store on the drive, but not the files that the system stores there, at least not without running the considerable risk of breaking something that can cause serious problems, up to & including data loss or the inability to boot the system normally. It is a very complex OS, with many processes that require considerable study just to understand what they do, much less how or why they do it. In fact, some processes are reserved for the exclusive use of the system's many non-human users, & provide services essential to the normal functioning of the machine.

     

    You are provided with all the tools needed to see how much disk space is available for your use -- that's what the graphics display like in your screen shots shows you. The display is straightforward, explicitly indicating the space used by certain specific types of files & lumping everything else into the "Other" section. Since there are literally dozens of different types of files that are or can be stored in both the user & system domains, it isn't practical (or for some things possible) to break things down further than that. As has been mentioned several times, some directories simply cannot even be read by regular or admin users, or altered or executed by any user other than the one non-human user that provides some low level system service. This is a major part of the security model of Unix & Unix-like systems, & in El Capitan it has been extended even further with the addition of so-called "rootless" System Integrity Protection, which denies write access to some files even by root.

     

    If it helps, you can think of "Other" as "Everything Else," but you won't ever be able to see everything that includes without altering the fundamental way the OS works, at which point you will be on your own, without the support of Apple & taking full responsibility for the consequences of doing so.

     

    As for any problems you might be having with the existing OS, aside from not understanding what is using some of the disk space, what specific problems are you actually seeing? Is the system sluggish, unstable, or anything like that? Do you see frequent application crashes or other error messages in the normal use of your Mac? If not, the only real problem is basically what you might call an intellectual one, which is why there has been so much focus on that.

     

    For that, I suggest you consider browsing through the enormous amount of developer documentation Apple makes available at https://developer.apple.com/resources/ & possibly enrolling in the developer program. (Both free & paid accounts are available). I know of no better way to get insights into the "how & why" of the many facets of OS X.

  • by Sorcerer2006,

    Sorcerer2006 Sorcerer2006 Oct 21, 2015 1:06 PM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Oct 21, 2015 1:06 PM in response to R C-R

    RC

    I'm going to stick to my original problem statement as follows:

     

    "My storage has been steadily reducing itself every day - several days ago I was at 180 GB free and today I'm at 95 GB free. None of the folders I have show any increase in storage. I have used Disk Wave to look more closely at my files and looked at invisible files but cannot find any that would account for this issue."

     

    I haven't reported any problems with applications or crashing, or any other issues save this one issue.

     

    I have stated that my problem with this condition is that I am missing at least 130GB of storage - not a few GBs or even the size of the system folder in the range of 8GB, but 130GB not accounted for.

     

    I cannot use that space and it appears to be reduced without any involvement from me.

     

    I have removed 10GB from movies and my available space has not changed at all.

     

    As a user I consider that to be a problem.

     

    You have taken me on a "cerebral safari" presenting information about "private files" etc. and now you have resorted to suggesting I want to change the OS and sending me to a developer site. I think you need to step back and look at what you've done to my post.

     

    I'm not going to  be OK with 130GB disappearing to OTHER. If that's your basic position then I guess we're done for now. But remember that OTHER has been increasing on my MBP. As I give it more space it takes it. So I don't really have an option. I need to understand why this isn't a problem worth finding a solution because to all appearances it's going to continue to get worse and soon I will be where my son's MBP is with less than 5% available space and 350GB of OTHER that he cannot identify.

     

    At no time in this conversation did I suggest that I should be able to control system files or storage. I am very clear that as a user I manage only my files and storage. And I purchased 500GB and I have a reasonable expectation of being able to use it for my storage after system, applications, etc. I don't believe that I have suggested anything different in any of my posts. You have led us down that path much to my regret and wasted my time with all your rhetoric about how magical and mysterious the OS is.

     

    I appreciate the suggestions for potential fixes along the way - clearly you thought there might be something to fix or you wouldn't have suggested that I run those solutions. So if you have nothing more, it's clear you don't believe I have a problem.

  • by R C-R,

    R C-R R C-R Oct 21, 2015 2:14 PM in response to Sorcerer2006
    Level 6 (17,633 points)
    Oct 21, 2015 2:14 PM in response to Sorcerer2006

    1. I have not suggested that you should change the OS, only that if you want to see everything stored on your drive that is what you would have to do.

     

    2. Files are not "disappearing" into Other. It is just a broad category of all files that are not in one of the others in the display. That includes both user & system files. Most of those files you can see in Finder or with third party tools, some you cannot.

     

    3. By design, the OS will store things on the drive temporarily, as long as there is enough space for that. When there is not, it automatically removes them. If the drive becomes so full that it interferes with the normal operation of the system, the OS will warn you about that.

     

    4. If you want to determine if what you are seeing by probing around in the normally hidden parts of the OS is actually a problem or not, you will have to digest a considerable amount of information about how the OS works "under the hood" that most users have little interest in. I have suggested what I believe to be a very good source for that kind of info, but it is up to you to decide what, if anything, you want to learn about that.

     

    5. OS X is neither magical nor mystical but it is extremely complex. By design, it hides most of its complexity from end users. I have suggested nothing more than that.

  • by f104club,

    f104club f104club Oct 22, 2015 5:56 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 22, 2015 5:56 AM in response to R C-R

    I have a 2013 Mac Pro & since I upgraded to 10.11 I have had 70 GB of swap files appearing and disappearing on a regular basis. I believe this could be part of the problem going on here.

  • by Leopardus,

    Leopardus Leopardus Oct 22, 2015 7:00 AM in response to Leopardus
    Level 4 (1,087 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 22, 2015 7:00 AM in response to Leopardus

    Leopardus wrote:

     

    Hi Sorcerer,

     

    You can use SupaView to give you a graphical overview of what is on your HD. After it has displayed the total HD graphically you can see what exactly uses which space. Clicking on it will give you the detail thereof.

     

    It is compatible with both Yosemite and El Capitan.

     

    Have fun

     

    Leo

    You can remove all the doubt and see what is using your space. You might have missed this.

     

    Leo

  • by f104club,

    f104club f104club Oct 22, 2015 7:31 AM in response to Sorcerer2006
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 22, 2015 7:31 AM in response to Sorcerer2006

    Hi Sorcerer,

    I had a daily occurrence after upgrading my Mac Pro to El Cap. of watching my hard drive capacity fill up till

    the machine was unresponsive and I would have to reboot. I eliminated 70 GB's off the machine and could watch as 50+ GB's would disappear

    the machine slowed down and then after 50 minutes the storage would come back. I ran Daisy Disk and found 50 GB in the

    "private" folder, and then in the var folder, the vm folder with 50 "swapfile" of 1.1 GB. There was a big problem in 2012

    with Swapfiles which are meant to be temp storage and not to be deleted. I watched as 48 files disappeared and my storage came back.

     

    I don't know why this is happening or what to do about it but I'm under deadline so will ignore until next week.

     

    You might check and see if the same thing is happening.

    DD

  • by Sorcerer2006,

    Sorcerer2006 Sorcerer2006 Oct 22, 2015 8:42 AM in response to f104club
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Oct 22, 2015 8:42 AM in response to f104club

    OK I went through this with Apple support and did all of the things that have been listed by everyone with no success.

     

    Lastly I rebuilt the OSX from the recovery drive and that didn't work.

     

    Now I just finished wiping the disk, building a new OSX, and using migration assistant to restore all my files from Time Machine. and it appears this has fixed the problem although we have to wait for a day or two to see if the available storage starts to disappear again. Here is my current picture.

    Screen Shot 2015-10-22 at 8.28.51 AM.jpg

    When I started I had gotten down to 92GB available and it was still going down. I had removed 10GB of movies only to have Other increase that exact amount and take away the space. So now I have picked up over 130GB that weren't there before - you can look back at my posts earlier in this message stream.

     

    Now Apple had me delete a lot of files manually that were temp and cache files in the system, but that didn't work. I also uses Cocktail which is very good at removing temporary or cached files from the system but that didn't work. So I was never able to get rid of the files you mentioned although I have not tried Daisy Disk but I gave earlier a list of all the disk utilities I used but none of them would show me any files in that /private/var area so I never got the opportunity to delete them.

     

    Replacing the entire drive is the most drastic measure on my list and I'm still not certain about the outcome - restoring from time capsule is an overnight process at best so it takes 8-10 hours even when you have a gigabit wireless. Not the easiest solution but certainly the "final" solution.

     

    If this comes back, then I'm going to say we have a bug in how El Capitan handles files. If it does not, then I'll say that there is a problem with existing file structures when upgrading to 10.11.

  • by Luxpiro,

    Luxpiro Luxpiro Nov 5, 2015 11:37 AM in response to R C-R
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 5, 2015 11:37 AM in response to R C-R

    I have a similar problem, but I found that the Mail application is the one getting all the HD space available, until it crashes the system.

     

    Mail App keeps downloading the 27,000+ emails

     

    I've tried many different things from different post in the Mail App, but nothing works, I have just decided to stop using Mail and start using webmail for my email accounts, unfortunately this is slow compared to Mail App when you search for an specific email or attachment.

     

    No running Mail, No problem, but it's not a final solution.

  • by lizzyfc,

    lizzyfc lizzyfc Dec 7, 2015 3:35 PM in response to Sorcerer2006
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 7, 2015 3:35 PM in response to Sorcerer2006

    Thank you for patiently taking us through the issues you were having. All of this sounds so eerily familiar to me I've also begun searching for a solution to what sounds like the same problem you had.

     

    I am a designer who manages large print files (packaging, etc) on my MacBook. A few weeks ago I noticed I was nearing half my HD space, so I began to manually backup projects onto an external. I had the exact same problem you did... removing files did not clear up HD space. In the meantime I am now down to only 50G free and have 290G of "Other" because I think my attempt to clean up HD space has made this problem worse. The only thing I have done in addition is to turn off time capsule AND wipe local backups through a command window. That took my "Other" space down from 336G to 290G but strangely didn't free up any more room.

     

    Screen Shot 2015-12-07 at 5.18.20 PM.png

     

    I got to the point this afternoon where I can no longer expand large zip files and I am out of HD space. I have done nearly every step you attempted in October to try and fix this but I'm afraid my next step is wiping my HD.

     

    Has anyone developed any additional solutions since October?

  • by lizzyfc,

    lizzyfc lizzyfc Dec 7, 2015 3:42 PM in response to lizzyfc
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 7, 2015 3:42 PM in response to lizzyfc

    For anyone else experiencing this disappearing HD space issue... I finally found the solution!

     

    /.MobileBackups.trash

     

    http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/44877/gigabytes-of-disk-space-shown-as- hidden-space-in-daisydisk/218614#218614

     

    Screen Shot 2015-12-07 at 5.42.07 PM.png

  • by eljonco,

    eljonco eljonco May 13, 2016 11:41 PM in response to Leopardus
    Level 1 (34 points)
    May 13, 2016 11:41 PM in response to Leopardus

    Chiming in with a 'me too', 10.10.5 256 GB SSD retina MBP.

    Done all of the above with respect to detecting what file causes the trouble.

    Erasing the disk and restoring indeed reclaims the lost space.

    After a few months, this repeats. Twice already.

    Genius bar etc. seems to think that erasing and restoring is the only solution.

     

    SupaView scans almost half the disk (half!) and shows all in there properly.

    The other part, visually more than half of the SSD is, after a long period of increasing progress bar that gets stuck half way, shown as 'Unscanned space'. After the progress bar has gone, the Unscanned space remains at 126.6 GB. TRIM is enabled.

     

    Disk utility, when booted from another volume, doesn't find any problem.

    When a (bootable) backup is made with Carbon Copy Cloner, the 'Other' apparently is not copied.

     

    DaisyDisk recognises 136 GB 'hidden space' out of 244.6 GB SSD.

    Scanning the disk using DaisyDisk as Administrator shows a folder .DocumentRevisions-V100/.cs/ChunkStorage of 128 GB

    See this or this page for more info. Executing the commands in the latter link releases another 126 GB

     

    8-)

  • by eljonco,

    eljonco eljonco May 14, 2016 12:04 AM in response to eljonco
    Level 1 (34 points)
    May 14, 2016 12:04 AM in response to eljonco

    Too late for an edit, I would like to add this link too.

  • by HB Woodrose,

    HB Woodrose HB Woodrose Jul 19, 2016 9:47 AM in response to Sorcerer2006
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 19, 2016 9:47 AM in response to Sorcerer2006

    Has anyone found a solution to this?

     

    It definitely looks like a bug in El Capitan...

     

    I've been a mac user for many many years and am now having this problem as well.

     

    I have moved literally EVERYTHING I can possibly move to an external hd, but my local hd space is steadily disappearing. I'm quite savvy when it comes to computers and have done every possible solution proposed by the internet to no avail.

     

    Apple needs to get on this bug quick because it will soon make this computer unusable.

  • by HB Woodrose,

    HB Woodrose HB Woodrose Jul 19, 2016 10:55 AM in response to HB Woodrose
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 19, 2016 10:55 AM in response to HB Woodrose

    My 'about this mac' storage screenshot:

    Screen Shot 2016-07-19 at 7.51.52 PM.png

     

    This is a serious problem...

  • by HB Woodrose,

    HB Woodrose HB Woodrose Jul 20, 2016 5:30 AM in response to Sorcerer2006
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 20, 2016 5:30 AM in response to Sorcerer2006

    HEY I FOUND THE ANSWER!!!!

     

    It's apples new versioning system. If you have any apps using that, it will eat up all your harddrive space. I just free'd up over 150 gigs!

     

    Check out this article:

    https://goo.gl/G4lKYK

     

    And the solution from the comments here:

    https://goo.gl/38T2iw

     

    Would be nice if apple would make this more obvious and even nicer if they would allow us to set the versioning location to an external drive. However, as long as you use dropbox or something like that you dont need the versioning system anyway.

     

    Extra bonus: That data also takes up space from your iOS devices since its all linked to icloud. After fixing this, back up your iphone to itunes, erase all its content and settings, then restore. Youll see more space on your device

     

     

    Here's what my storage looks like now

    Screen Shot 2016-07-20 at 2.29.17 PM.png

first Previous Page 3 of 3