Q: AppleTV 4 surround sound issue

WIth new firmware still no dolby digital plus output. Now the max is 5.1 pcm in Netflix! No 7.1 possibility anymore. Why do I never see a reply in this topic from an Apple employee?

There is a discussion in the Handbrake forums that says tracks with the language listed as "Uknown" don't work correctly. You can set the language with Subler and see if that fixes your issue. If it does you may want to put in a Subler feature request or vote for one that allows batch changing of Audio Track options.

Unfortunately, this is not an issue with meta-designation of language (which are already designated as "English") but rather a problem of how Apple has degraded TV4 audio output with each new tvOS update. For instance, under the tvOS v9.0, an AAC 1.0 "mono" audio track would automatically play correctly through the center channel speaker on my home entertainment system in the "Auto" Surround mode. (True, the receiver did indicate it had an 8-channel connection with the TV4, but the center channel was the only one actually carrying any "active" audio content.) However, when Apple released the TV4 tvOS v9.0.1 update, this all changed. Instead of being applied directly to the 8-channel connection, the AAC 1.0 audio was first processed by the "Stereo" downmix routine and, as a result, was changed to 2.0 mono output and sent to the AVR as "Stereo" PCM which it then played through the Left and Right speakers by the receiver. AC3 1.0 and 2.1 audio was also processed in a similar manner turning mono AC3 into 2.0 mono audio and stripping the LFE channel from 2.1 content in the "Auto" Surround mode. And, since the AVR does not recognize the "Stereo" PCM as a sourced Dolby Digital bitstream, it does not automatically decode/play 1.0 sourced content through the receiver's center channel, play LFE audio if originally present, or automatically apply ProLogic II post-processing to AC3 2.1 sourced tracks originally encoded as active ProLogic II content. This was the primary reason I switched to the "Dolby Surround" Surround output mode for exclusive playback of AC3 bitstreams that were still being sent under tvOS v9.0.1 to the AVR for DD Digital decoding, channelization display, post processing, and final playback through the correct speakers as originally encoded.

Unfortunately, yesterday's TV4 tvOS v9.1 update simply applied the v9.0.1 "Auto" Surround mode strategies to the TV4 "Dolby Surround" mode output. In short, Only 5.1 (or greater "surround" encodes???) are now supported correctly in either the "Auto" or "Dolby Surround" modes. This means that 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, and 2.1 ProLogic II audio tracks are all now treated as 2.0 content in both the "Auto" and "Dolby Surround" modes no matter how they were originally encoded or whether they were encoded in ACC or AC3 compression formats. For me this is a deal breaker. In addition, Apple has not fixed the problem of AC3 5.1 content sometimes becoming "stuck" in a 2-channel output mode and has eliminated the ability for most users to manually switch between AAC and AC3 tracks during playback for comparison purposes under the tvOS v9.1 update. Indeed, I am no longer sure if the TV4 is playing an AAC or an AC3 track when the audio isn't playing as 5.1 surround sound.

I pre-ordered my ATVs from Apple, and was well past the return date, but they were still willing to authorize a return. If you bought from Apple give them a call. I'm still sitting on my RMA to see if this is a permanent fix.

I talked with Apple personnel last night who couldn't really help me and posted a generalized Product Feedback report along with seven Developer Bug Reports earlier today, Had planned to visit the local Apple Store to look at the iPad Pro and check to see if their technicians have the ability to restore tvOS v9.0 or v9.0.1 without automatically reinstalling the v9.1 as per the "normal" restoration process. If not, will ask for a refund on both pre-order and in-store purchases or trade in credits for a half dozen or so TV3 units as Xmas gifts. If they're intransigent regarding the matter, I'll simply gift the TV4 themselves to be rid of them as current Apple "fixes" only seem to be creating newer and worsening Dolby Digital support issues.

TopGun2010 wrote:

 

WIth new firmware still no dolby digital plus output. Now the max is 5.1 pcm in Netflix! No 7.1 possibility anymore. Why do I never see a reply in this topic from an Apple employee?

If you send a 7.1 input you will get 7.1 channel output. Getting E-AC-3 (DD+) audio to the ATV4gen is the challenge. There's a testing app that will validate your 8 speaker connections and at least two* 7.1 movies in iTunes.  You'd have to contact Netflix regarding their DD+ plans but while they use DD+ as a transport I'm not aware that they have any 7.1 content.

As has been discussed at length you cannot currently identify the codec when using Surround-Auto (since the decode step happens in the ATV) which you have to use to get 7.1 output.  Of course since you can't transport more than six channels in AC-3 (DD) the reasonable assumption is 7.1 out means E-AC-3 in.

This is a user to user forum.  If you want to speak to an Apple employee you can call support or visit an Apple store.

*The latest Terminator and Mission Impossible movies.

Just finished some testing on 9.1 code.

Mission Impossible has a 7.1 audio included, Minions has 5.1.

Upon setting both my Marantz receiver and ATV4 to surround mode auto:

- Mission Impossible audio is being send as 7.1 LPCM

- Minions is being send as 5.1 LPCM

To my believe with 9.0.1 Minions was sent as 7.1 LPCM with only 5.1 channel ocupied with sound.

Though still missing the pass-through mode, above mentioned change will do for now since I do not have tha swap between audio setting on ATV anymore to retrieve the correct signals.

Jon,

If you bought the Apple TV on 11/1/15 or later directly from Apple, then Apple’s Holiday Return Policy should allow you to return them any time now until 1/8/2016. It definitely applies in the US, and I’m not sure about other countries.

Thanks for all the hard work you’ve done in looking deeply into this issue. I’ve already returned by ATV 4G as well… If they could just continue with the same behavior as ATV 2G-3G, it should would help everyone!

Jon Walker wrote:

In short, Only 5.1 (or greater "surround" encodes???) are now supported correctly in either the "Auto" or "Dolby Surround" modes. This means that 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, and 2.1 ProLogic II audio tracks are all now treated as 2.0 content in both the "Auto" and "Dolby Surround" modes no matter how they were originally encoded or whether they were encoded in ACC or AC3 compression formats.

This is actually not the case for me. The update has fixed the Dolby Surround mode issue on my Denon AVR-2311ci so that my receiver sees 2.0 channels and automatically decodes it into Dolby Pro Logic II just like my ATV3G does. 5.1 already worked correctly. Auto for me has not changed for me. 2 Channel audio is sees as 7.1 channels by my receiver, but is correctly decoded into Pro Logic II. 5-Channel audio is seen as 7 Channel audio and reports as 7.1 Multi-Channel Audio. I haven't checked my Denon AVR-1801 yet. I'll try that later tonight.

What kind of receiver do you have?

Jon Walker wrote:

 

I talked with Apple personnel last night who couldn't really help me and posted a generalized Product Feedback report along with seven Developer Bug Reports earlier today,

Did you buy from Apple, or someone else?

I pre-ordered from the Apple Store, and I called the Apple Online Store customer service number (800-692-7753) to ask for a return. When I explained to them my issue of having to change either ATV or Receiver/TV settings every time I played a video with a different type of Audio track they immediately said they understood my frustration and offered to RMA both devices. The one I bought at Best Buy they wouldn't help me with, but I expected that.

@PorpoiseHork: Strange! You describe symptoms like I noticed in 9.0.1. Sound mode in 'auto' on ATV4 definitely now sends 5.1 or 7.1 channels LPCM to my receiver based upon which content I play from iTunes.

Again, Mission Impossible is sent and detected as 7.1 LPCM by my receiver Marantz SR7010. Minions is send and detected as 5.1 LPCM.

The big advantage of receiving the sound in LPCM is that each upmixer present on my receiver can be used.

If I were to receive DD signal, the receiver could only upmix using Dolby Digital Surround upmixer (so no DTS or Aureo upmixer f.e.).

Having the option to have my receiver decode DD7.1 would be nice but to be honest, the only value it will bring for now is the DD symbol showing in my receiver display . Being able to upmix 5.1 and 7.1 without having to change settings on my ATV and receiver will do fine for me now.

If you bought the Apple TV on 11/1/15 or later directly from Apple, then Apple’s Holiday Return Policy should allow you to return them any time now until 1/8/2016. It definitely applies in the US, and I’m not sure about other countries.

Thanks for the additional info. Want to talk with local store techs first to see if they can revert tvOS v9.1 back to original v9.0 or v9.0.1 update. Would like to keep the units if possible for improved video rendering. (I.e., they provide improved upscaling of older SD content and jitter-free display at full refresh rates while older TV3 output top out in the HDTV's 120 to 240 Hz range.)

Thanks for all the hard work you’ve done in looking deeply into this issue. I’ve already returned by ATV 4G as well… If they could just continue with the same behavior as ATV 2G-3G, it should would help everyone!

It's really a community effort. Thanks should be directed to everyone participating in these discussions since it is the combined observations and insights that ultimately provide answers and solutions or workarounds.

jvulto wrote:

 

@PorpoiseHork: Strange! You describe symptoms like I noticed in 9.0.1. Sound mode in 'auto' on ATV4 definitely now sends 5.1 or 7.1 channels LPCM to my receiver based upon which content I play from iTunes.

Again, Mission Impossible is sent and detected as 7.1 LPCM by my receiver Marantz SR7010. Minions is send and detected as 5.1 LPCM.

 

The big advantage of receiving the sound in LPCM is that each upmixer present on my receiver can be used.

If I were to receive DD signal, the receiver could only upmix using Dolby Digital Surround upmixer (so no DTS or Aureo upmixer f.e.).

Having the option to have my receiver decode DD7.1 would be nice but to be honest, the only value it will bring for now is the DD symbol showing in my receiver display . Being able to upmix 5.1 and 7.1 without having to change settings on my ATV and receiver will do fine for me now.

The ATV4 has alsways sent 5.1 or 7.1 PCM audio for me in 'auto' mode - the issue was that it would not, and still won't, properly trigger Dolby Digital 5.1 playback. I got 7.1 multi-channel audio instead, and the rear and side channels were swapped. Dolby Pro Logic is decoded correctly. Since all my Apple TV tracks are encoded in Dolby Pro Logic II or Dolby Digital 5.1, I have no issues forcing Dolby Surround to select those formats - it just ensures the tracks are corrected detected and decoded.

This is actually not the case for me.

Was referring to the changes in the manner by which the data is forwarded by the TV4 to the AVR under tvOS v9.0.1 and v9.1 updates. However, if you wish to compare automatic post-processing by different AVRs, then lets look at some differences between your Denon and my Pioneer.

The update has fixed the Dolby Surround mode issue on my Denon AVR-2311ci so that my receiver sees 2.0 channels and automatically decodes it into Dolby Pro Logic II just like my ATV3G does.

Unfortunately, my receiver is programmed differently than yours. My receiver is not programmed to automatically apply Dolby Digital ProLogic II post-processing to Stereo PCM (AAC 2.0 sourced); "multichannel" (DD5.1, DD+7.1, 5.1 PCM, or 7.1 PCM); or AC3 1.0, 2.0, or 2.1 audio content. It only applies automatic Dolby Digital ProLogic II post-processing to AC3 "active" DD PL II encoded audio. (I.e., this is an older, pre-Dolby ATMOS, pre-4K UHD 60p/4:4:4@18 Gbps throughput, pre-etc. receiver model which I have yet to update.) Therefore...

Under tvOS v9.0.1 and operating in the "Dolby Surround" mode, my AAC 1.0, 2.0, stereo, and DD PL II content was sent over a DD5.1 connection between the TV4 and my AVR with only the Left and Right 5.1 channels populated with audio. As you will note above, this did not activate any automatic post-processing or enhanced audio routines. Using the same TV4 and AVR settings with an AC3 sourced audio track sent the AC3 bitstream data in its original encoded form (1.0, 2.0, stereo, 2.1, active DD ProLogic II, or DD 5.1) to my receiver for decoding and playback. As a result, 1.0 audio played through the center channel speaker; 2.0 and stereo content played through the left and right front speakers; 2.1 tracks played through the left, right, and LFE speakers; active DD PL II played as 3.1 with or without "surround" speakers as originally encoded; and DD5.1 played normally through the 5 front and surround speakers along with LFE. Thus, I sat, fat, dumb,, and happy—not even aware that others were using receivers that automatically enhanced any or all 2-channel audio inputs. (I.e., my receiver makes me turn on such enhancement features manually if I want them used.)

Under tvOS v9.1 and operating in the same TV4 "Dolby Surround" mode, both AAC and AC3 1.0, 2.0, stereo, 2.1, and Dolby Digital ProLogic II content is pre-processed by a routine (probably the "Stereo" mode downmix routine) before being passed to my receiver as "Stereo" PCM (i.e., the same connection used by older TV devices for AAC sourced audio tracks). Thus, any 2-channel audio content (or "multichannel" content output in the "Stereo" mode) sourced by your TV4 should now trigger automatic audio enhancement if your receiver is so capable (as you have already stated) while the "pseudo-5.1" playback of your DD PL II audio under tvOS v9.0.1 would automatically disable automatic post-processing of "multichannel" content. I.e., use of a 5.1 multichannel" connection between the TV4 and your AVR (whether they carry 6 channels of audio or only two) to carry your 2-channel DD PL II audio under tvOS v9.0.1 tells your receiver that no automatic post-processing is required.

5.1 already worked correctly.

As previously noted, sourced AC3 5.1 is passed in its original bitstream form under both v9.0.1 and v9.1 allowing your receiver to handle the decoding and playback correctly on its own.

Auto for me has not changed for me. 2 Channel audio is sees as 7.1 channels by my receiver, but is correctly decoded into Pro Logic II. 5-Channel audio is seen as 7 Channel audio and reports as 7.1 Multi-Channel Audio.

I see a number of changes in the "Auto" mode. Under v9.0, and v9.0.1, audio data was sent over a 7.1 "pseudo-connection." I.e., the receiver always indicated a 7.1 connection but only carried "active" audio channels based on the sourced audio tracks. Under v9.0 the audio appears to have been "impressed" directly on the same channels as the sourcing content. E.g., an AAC 1.0 audio track was placed on the center channel of the 7.1 connection. However, under v9.0.1, the same AAC 1.0 audio is preprocessed and changed to 2.0 mono before being sent via a "Stereo" PCM connection. However, "multichannel" content always skips "Auto" mode pre-process under all three tvOS releases. However, under v9.0 and v9.0.1 my receiver always indicated a 7.1 PCM connection and never indicated any LFE processing. On the other hand, under the latest v9.1 release, DD5.1 sourced content now actually displays as a 5.1 PCM connection and correctly displays active LFE processing on my receiver. Unfortunately, all 1.0, 2.1, and Dolby Digital ProLogic II content is still pre-processed under v9.1 before being sent  to my receiver as "Stereo" PCM the same as using the "Dolby Surround" mode so I still have my problems in either mode.

What kind of receiver do you have?

Am currently running an older Pioneer VSX-1120 but am considering the purchase of one of the Pioneer Elite VSX-90 series models. As I previously noted, its features are rapidly becoming outmoded and it may be time to upgrade soon.

Did you buy from Apple, or someone else?

I purchased units through both the Apple On-line Store and the local Apple Store near my home. (I.e., the local store was stocked three days before pre-order purchases were scheduled to be delivered—even paying for 1-Day delivery.)

Steve's method worked for me. I'm getting Dolby Digital output from Netflix now.

AAfter much messing I left the ATV4 in auto, so it outputs uncompressed PCM in multiple channels, since this is uncompressed and the DD setting was outputing fake DD 5.1 when I knew the source only had stereo 2.0, DD or not DD.

I Left my Pioneer 9140TXH receiver in auto surround mode, now it plays stuff in stereo or 5.1 automatically using the PCM uncompressed signals in the ripped files

I Have been reading through the tread.  And this has nothing to do with streaming movies but it has to do with Apple Music and YouTube. My ATV4 when first purchased showed my Apple Music and some of my YouTube videos in Dolby Surround. After I did the first update that went away. Can anyone verify this ?

Thanks

moochman wrote:

My ATV4 when first purchased showed my Apple Music and some of my YouTube videos in Dolby Surround                            

Surround output depends in the input, the app and the Surround Sound setting.  This did change in the tvOS 9.1 update.  Auto and Dolby Surround work much better given straightforward inputs like 2/0/.0, 3/2/.1 and 3/4/.1 (if you don't need an E-AC-3 bitstream) but there are still issues.  Some have been described at length by Jon Walker.  Others are completely puzzling.  E.g. a 3/2/.1 input played by Plex in Auto does the right thing but in Dolby Surround the output is 2/0/.0.

If you don't have mono inputs and you don't need a bitstream then Surround Sound:Auto is currently the best mode.  tvOS is still beta.  Expect changes.

I Have been reading through the tread.  And this has nothing to do with streaming movies but it has to do with Apple Music and YouTube. My ATV4 when first purchased showed my Apple Music and some of my YouTube videos in Dolby Surround. After I did the first update that went away. Can anyone verify this ?

Consider it verified. The explanation (or problem, depending on your point of view) is simple. The original TV4 tvOS v9.0 used a Dolby output connection with downstream devices to transfer non-Dolby audio in the "Dolby Surround" mode. This meant that your Apple Music and YouTube video 1.0 and/or 2.0 audio was actually sent as the active left and right channels on a "pseudo" 5.1 Dolby surround connection which, of course, triggered the receiving device Dolby decoder indicators. Active channels played correctly as long as the receiving device was capably of decoding a Dolby bitstream but many found this workflow to be very confusing. Switching to the TV4 "Stereo" mode would play these files in their normal "Stereo" PCM manner but most users found doing so to be inconvenient.

As a result, the TV4 "logic" was modified. Under tvOS v9.0.1 and v9.1, the source audio tracks are first evaluated to determine whether or not the audio is "multichannel" in nature. (I.e., for the purpose of this evaluation, it seems that any Dolby audio having an LFE channel is considered multichannel and any audio without an LFE channel is considered non-multichannel.) Once the "multichannel" status is known, the audio is then processed according to the "logic" of the particular Surround preference setting and tvOS release in use. Currently, under TV4 tvOS v9.1, non-multichannel audio is sent to the downstream device as "Stereo" PCM in both the "Auto" and "Dolby Surround" modes. Multichannel audio in the "Auto" mode is sent via a multichannel PCM connection with "active" channels carried on corresponding channels of the multichannel connection. (E.g., a 2.1 source Dolby audio track would only carry "active" audio on the left, right, and LFE channels of the multichannel PCM connection.) In the "Dolby Surround" mode, the same 2.1 Dolby source track would be sent to the downstream device as left, right, and LFE channels on a DD 5.1 connection.

Thus, your problem is solved but, as bodosom indicated, different problems can crop up for other users. For instance, under the current v9.1 logic, there is no such thing as Dolby "passthrough" of non-multichannel audio as under TV IOS v6.2.1 (TV2), TV IOS v7.2 (TV3), or tvOS v9.0/v9.0.1 (TV4) systems. Thus, under tvOS v9.1 DD 1.0 audio is sent as "Stereo" PCM which requires manual post-processing to restore playback through the center channel speaker. On the other hand, a DD 2.1 Dolby ProLogic II audio track is sent as a "pseudo" DD 5.1 connection which automatically disables decoding of the active matrix center and surround channels since the Dolby decoder is already operating in the multichannel mode. Am, therefore, requesting Apple engineers restore the previous "Dolby (Auto)" passthrough over HDMI option as a fourth TV4 mode option in addition to the current "Auto", "Dolby Surround", and "Stereo" options. (I.e., this option would unconditionally passthrough any Dolby bitstream for downstream decoding and send non-Dolby audio as "Stereo" PCM). Request anyone interested in restoring this workflow send feedback to Apple regarding the current lack of support for certain Dolby audio compression formats.