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Q: AppleTV 4 surround sound issue

i just acquired an AppleTV 4 to replace my AppleTV 3. Since I used to connect the optical audio out to my Yamaha surround sound receiver, I am forced to use only hdmi. That would not be a problem for two reasons:

 

1. All AppleTV content plays with the receiver showing PCM and not DTS or some other form of surround sound.

2. All my movies i encoded are strictly playing in stereo only. The DTS stream is seemingly not being passed through hdmi.

 

Routing hdmi to tv then optical from tv to receiver does not change anything.

 

How can I fix this?  Surely I should be getting DTS with a Yamaha rx- v1900 receiver?

Posted on Nov 1, 2015 1:32 AM

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Q: AppleTV 4 surround sound issue

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  • by Jon Walker,

    Jon Walker Jon Walker Nov 9, 2015 7:28 AM in response to Steve Waite
    Level 6 (18,613 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 7:28 AM in response to Steve Waite

    Thanks Jon, this is what I will do.

    Looks like I may have misspoken here. Don't use the Apple Music service, but I assume it is not encoded as AC3. In any case, if you try it anyway, let use know if sound bar plays any differently. This solution would probably only work on an AC3 music video.

    SJAUG.png

  • by Steve Waite,

    Steve Waite Steve Waite Nov 9, 2015 7:39 AM in response to Jon Walker
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 7:39 AM in response to Jon Walker

    Jon Walker wrote:

     

    Thanks Jon, this is what I will do.

    Looks like I may have misspoken here. Don't use the Apple Music service, but I assume it is not encoded as AC3. In any case, if you try it anyway, let use know if sound bar plays any differently. This solution would probably only work on an AC3 music video.

    SJAUG.png

    I now listen to apple music with the AT4's audio selected to stereo, this allows my sound bar to apply sound effects or dolby pro logic to it.  Any other setting "Auto" or "Dolby Surround",  lights the DD light and no sound from the rear's.

  • by Jon Walker,

    Jon Walker Jon Walker Nov 9, 2015 7:46 AM in response to Steve Waite
    Level 6 (18,613 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 7:46 AM in response to Steve Waite

    I now listen to apple music with the AT4's audio selected to stereo, this allows my sound bar to apply sound effects or dolby pro logic to it.  Any other setting "Auto" or "Dolby Surround",  lights the DD light and no sound from the rear's.

    Am surprised it worked then. Any idea as to how Apple encodes their Apple Music content? It might tell us why this worked here. In any case, thanks for the rapid response. It may help others with similar problems.

     

    Have a good day...

    SJAUG.png

  • by Steve Waite,

    Steve Waite Steve Waite Nov 9, 2015 8:05 AM in response to Jon Walker
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 8:05 AM in response to Jon Walker

    Jon Walker wrote:

     

    I now listen to apple music with the AT4's audio selected to stereo, this allows my sound bar to apply sound effects or dolby pro logic to it.  Any other setting "Auto" or "Dolby Surround",  lights the DD light and no sound from the rear's.

    Am surprised it worked then. Any idea as to how Apple encodes their Apple Music content? It might tell us why this worked here. In any case, thanks for the rapid response. It may help others with similar problems.

     

    Have a good day...

    SJAUG.png

    See attached.

    Screen Shot 2015-11-09 at 10.52.57 AM.png

              Apple MPEG-4 audio, Audio Channels: 2

    This is all the info I could find on the file.

  • by Jon Walker,

    Jon Walker Jon Walker Nov 9, 2015 8:05 AM in response to Steve Waite
    Level 6 (18,613 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 8:05 AM in response to Steve Waite

    "Curiouser and curiouser." Again, thanks for the quick response. Looks like normal encode settings. Afraid the "why" is beyond me at this point.

     

    Take care...

    SJAUG.png

  • by bodosom,

    bodosom bodosom Nov 9, 2015 8:11 AM in response to Steve Waite
    Level 1 (28 points)
    iPhone
    Nov 9, 2015 8:11 AM in response to Steve Waite

    Initially you wrote "Apple Music" and I believe we assumed you meant the Apple Music streaming service.  If you meant playing music from a local iTunes instance then things could be different but that would be odd.

  • by Jon Walker,

    Jon Walker Jon Walker Nov 9, 2015 8:16 AM in response to mikealvey
    Level 6 (18,613 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 8:16 AM in response to mikealvey

    when ste to auto after you reset does your receiver show Dolby digital or pcm? My pioneer  my shows pcm.

    If interested for comparison purposes...

     

    In the "Auto" mode, on my Pioneer AVR it depends of the source track selected. AC3 track playback indicates DD+7.1 decoding "is available" via a PCM connection on the HDMI interface. With the exception of Dolby LFE activity, it does not indicate which\ channels are active and which are empty. For Stereo or Dolby Pro Logic II AAC track playback, the AVR indicates PCM stereo playback which is channelled through the L and R speakers. If I turn on further Dolby processing, I can decode Dolby Pro Logic II audio to left, right, center audio channels with or without a single rear surround channel played through the correct L/C/R speakers with or without the rear surround channel applied to both rear speakers.

     

    Here is a more complete tabulation for my Pioneer AVR tests:

     

    TV4 SettingTrackMode IndicatorAVR Channel DisplaySpeaker Output
    AutoAACDirect PCMn/aL/R
    AutoAC3Direct PCML/C/R/SL/SR/XL/XR/LFE(Active)As originally encoded
    Dolby SurroundAACDD DigitalL/C/R/SL/SR/LFE(inactive)L/R
    Dolby SurroundAC3DD DigitalAs originally encoded w/Active LFEAs originally encoded
    StereoAACDirect PCMn/aL/R
    StereoAC3Direct PCMn/aL/R


    SJAUG.png

  • by bodosom,

    bodosom bodosom Nov 9, 2015 8:16 AM in response to Jon Walker
    Level 1 (28 points)
    iPhone
    Nov 9, 2015 8:16 AM in response to Jon Walker

    According to Apple Apple Music content is the same as iTunes downloads.

    Jon Walker wrote:

    Any idea as to how Apple encodes their Apple Music content?

  • by Jon Walker,

    Jon Walker Jon Walker Nov 9, 2015 8:21 AM in response to bodosom
    Level 6 (18,613 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 8:21 AM in response to bodosom

    According to Apple Apple Music content is the same as iTunes downloads.

    And so it would appear. Looks like we have another TV4 "mystery" here. Please post back if you come up anything more.

     

    Take care...

    SJAUG.png

  • by Steve Waite,

    Steve Waite Steve Waite Nov 9, 2015 8:22 AM in response to bodosom
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 8:22 AM in response to bodosom

    bodosom wrote:

     

    Initially you wrote "Apple Music" and I believe we assumed you meant the Apple Music streaming service.  If you meant playing music from a local iTunes instance then things could be different but that would be odd.

    Yes, Apple Music steaming service is this way, as well as purchased music. I just made available offline a streaming song, which downloads the file, and it has the same file info as the purchased song.

  • by bodosom,

    bodosom bodosom Nov 9, 2015 8:47 AM in response to Steve Waite
    Level 1 (28 points)
    iPhone
    Nov 9, 2015 8:47 AM in response to Steve Waite

    Steve Waite wrote:

    Yes, Apple Music steaming service is this way, as well as purchased music.

     

    If your ATV is not producing two channel PCM when you're using Apple Music it's defective.  As I said the PCM channel counts from iTunes Radio and Apple Music are the same so if you still have an ATV3 you can compare behavior.

  • by jvulto,

    jvulto jvulto Nov 9, 2015 9:45 AM in response to bodosom
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 9:45 AM in response to bodosom

    Just finished some additional testing.

    With ATV set to sound mode: "auto", and Receiver set to "auto" upon playing dolby 5.1 content:

     

    - Receiver detects PCM 3/4/.1 but only L & R surround speakers (lef & right to listening positions) produce sound. The BACK surround speakers remain silent. Which could be as expected since only 5.1 channels are being sent. However I would expect the BACK surround speakers to produce sound and the surround speakers (left & right to listening positions) to remain silent. Someone agree with this?

     

    - Same story upon listening to Netflix. I do not know however if Netflix streaming via ATV is done in DD+ or DD.

     

    See below a screenshot of Amplifier menu (Marantz SR6006) set to auto while sending Mad Max Fury Road movie in 5.1 via ATV with surround in 'auto'  mode.

    Back surround Left and Back surround Right silene. Left surround and Right surround providing 5.1 surround sound.

     

    7point1_surround.jpgIMG_5050.JPG

  • by bodosom,

    bodosom bodosom Nov 9, 2015 10:09 AM in response to jvulto
    Level 1 (28 points)
    iPhone
    Nov 9, 2015 10:09 AM in response to jvulto

    jvulto wrote:

    With ATV set to sound mode: "auto", and Receiver set to "auto" upon playing dolby 5.1 content:

     

    - Receiver detects PCM 3/4/.1 but only L & R surround speakers (lef & right to listening positions) produce sound. The BACK surround speakers remain silent. Which could be as expected since only 5.1 channels are being sent. However I would expect the BACK surround speakers to produce sound and the surround speakers (left & right to listening positions) to remain silent. Someone agree with this?

     

    No.  AC-3 (3/2/.1) has no rear data (which back in the day was mono) so it would be a error to send the surround data to the rear channels.  That would be 3/4/.1 with no data in the surround channels.

  • by johnnyapollo,

    johnnyapollo johnnyapollo Nov 9, 2015 11:37 AM in response to bodosom
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 11:37 AM in response to bodosom

    I think what jvulto is running into is that for many 7.1 receivers, when 5.1 content is sent as a 5.1 stream to the receiver, the data in the SL and SR are "matrixed" to create SBL and SBR, or 7.1, content from that 5.1 source.

     

    But when a source (Apple TV, PS3 used to do this for a while) provides 5.1 content in a 7.1 channel PCM stream, since the SBL and SBR are silent, the receiver doesn't try and matrix anything, because it assumes that the SBL and SBR channels are being provided. So you only get 5.1.

     

    My bigger problem is the fact that the Apple TV has seemingly changed the way it handles 5.1 audio, especially on BD Rips and non-Apple files.  Used to be track 1 was stereo AAC and track 2 was 5.1, and the Apple TV would default to the 5.1  Now it defaults to stereo, which is problematic for me.  Hopefully there's an easy fix either in iTunes or in the TVos, otherwise, reencoding and/or explaining to my wife how to manually choose 5.1 each time she starts a film isn't going to be a good look.

  • by jvulto,

    jvulto jvulto Nov 9, 2015 1:20 PM in response to bodosom
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 9, 2015 1:20 PM in response to bodosom

    theater_setup.jpg

    @bodosom

    When setting ATV to audio mode "surround" upon playing the same 5.1 content Mad Max Fury Road:

    - the receiver shows Dolby Digital 3/2/.1

    - The Surround L&R are silent

    - The BACK surround speakers produce the 5.1 surround

    So this is the opposite of what is happening in ATV audio mode "auto".

     

    I have not tried 'real' 7.1 content since for that I would have to buy Terminator Genesis. Tempting...

    As it seems to me now is that when I want 5.1 to be correctly played I am obliged to set ATV sound setting to "surround".

    When I want 7.1 I am obliged to set ATV sound setting to "auto".

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