Befuddled by nonlinear beginning chapter/preface/copywrite/forward

have no fear, richard the old is here. i've got your back.

i don't know where you originated this nor that what you say is the behavior in this forum as I tend to hang out here almost exclusively so far.

what you say though about this structure and the difficulty in figuring it out I can attest to. I probably spent a similar amount of time as you did trying to figure it out, but that was perhaps nearly maybe 4 years ago circa 2012 i think.

i don't know indesign, am happy enough with iba, but it is on my list to learn. i need to juggle between creating more books or more versions of the same book. at my advance age, i lean towards more books. but i digress and this is not likely what you want to hear. let's get to your issue.

i keep the first 4 pages intact. i have a cover of course, an intro media movie and a structure page for my toc. i don't use the glossary. i don't mingle any other pages in there above the line and am even not certain whether one can. easy enough to test.

i then follow this with a copyright page, followed by the dedication page, followed by a preface page as i would say that this is generally what you see in a book. you can add whatever of these pages you want. they will have the same hierarchy as a chapter page but be given roman numerals. i use the copyright page for the copyright, the dedication page for the dedication, but decided that i liked the structure of forward page better than the preface page, so that is what i use for the preface page. note: it's been awhile since i have done this so some details are a bit hazy. i change when necessary the layout by deleting items like pictures when i don't want them in one of these pages. the type of page if i remember is in a text box near the upper left, or that is where i moved it. i must have renamed the forward text box to say preface.

this will generally be followed by your chapter page, section page and content pages, repeated depending on your content. the chapter pages and section page will define your toc.

at the end i have something i put after the last chapter, section and content. it is one of the types of pages you find in the section category. i happen to use the preface page there. it has a roman numeral. i follow it with blank pages, so the blank pages are indented, which is what i want.

hazy, but it appears that any section page will be at the same hierarchical level as a chapter page or else they are moveable in an indent sort of fashion. i don't quite remember and would have to experiment.

i probably gave you enough info so that you can achieve what you want. if you get stuck, shoot me a specific question on anything that my haziness failed to answer or that you are unable to achieve and i will spend the time actually recreating this and send you step by step instructions. but i suspect you will be ok.

io wish i had your knowledge of indesign. i would like to see if it would allow me to port a book to the dreaded other platforms, dare i say. hope it never comes to that but still wonder if i should use it as a backup to iba on the ibook store.

hope this helps.

in my yut, i always found these interfaces intuitive. now, less so. i think part of the problem is that the interfaces are now more complex, perhaps in an effort to add more functionality and flexibility. part of the problem is that the older we get, our sharpness fades. in my case, a good part of the problem for me is that i start using a complex program and do not read the documentation, thinking i'll be able to figure things out myself. i used to actually study the documentation in detail and read books on the software, trying things out. as age advances you realize that the % of time remaining is getting less and less. you have to make choices between developing content or becoming an expert on the tool you use. it is likely a combination of all these things. the real young kids these days go to geometry class and are not even issued a book. everything is done with handouts. you can't learn that way. a contributing issue here as compared to them is that the technology changes rapidly, so the book is nearly out of date by the time it is created. anyone writing a book on an ever changing subject matter finds himself in a sisyphus like situation, so there are less books on the subject as compared to the early days. people find information on the internet for free, a lot of it wrong and or out of date. all of these things are contributing factors. i ramble.

i am a bit disappointed in myself that i couldn't communicate well enough to have you understand, but perhaps it is me who does not. the critical pages in ibooks are the chapter page, the section page and the content pages. each chapter starts with a chapter page. a chapter can have more than one section. consider a section as a logical part of a chapter before you go onto the next logical part. your content is contained in pages, which follow the section page. these three critical pages have a hierarchical structure of indentation. the top page is the chapter page the section pages are indented within a chapter and form the second level of the hierarchy. the content pages are then indented within the section and are all at the same level with each other.. in the front or the back you can have single pages to represent copyright, page, dedication page, etc. they can be made at the same level as the chapter page, which is what i do.

there is flexibility in how you arrange these peripheral pages as to whether they are at the same level as the chapter page or are indented somehow. i think that is what causes confusion but at the same time adds flexibility for another design arrangement..

Dear Sailors et al,

You are not alone in being confused by iBooksAuthor.

I'm really hoping they will release a version 3.0 with a revised user interface. I've learnt many programs and I taught my self a few computer languages, not that I'm fluent in any of them but I have a bit of understanding about what is going on.

What I find confusing is the pages. When you crate a new chapter, sometimes it seems to have a page for writing unlimited amounts of text and sometimes not. I cannot distinguish between a page and a chapter. I chapters come with space for unlimited text, why do you need to add a page?

With regard to your question about Forwards etc.

The answer is that you have to understand about "Layouts" and creating layouts first.

If you go to "View" button on the top bar and then from that dropdown menu select " Show Layouts".

Now you will see the various layouts you currently have available for Chapter, Sections and Pages.

You can duplicate a layout and play around with it or create a new one. Choose "Insert" from the top menu and choose chapter.

Now back to the little triangle you mentioned. That allows you to do something with that particular layouts.

Delete in rename it or if you have created a number different section layouts by duplicating an existing one and then it will show up in your list via the triange.

I think I have the answer to the page at the beginning of the chapter. I have learned that iBook Author wants the first, left hand page with the chapter title to stand alone and it is not linked to the following pages. It wants an image in the facing right hand page. At least this is in my layout (the basic one with the seed head photo). What I have done as a work around is to either do as it wants, or pretend that it is flowing onto the added page three by continuing to write as though it is flowing. For all the added pages, the text does flow. I have definitely learned to try to work with it, rather than against it. It is still a very basic program.

some of your books arrived but i haven't had a chance to look at them yet. been busy trying to get my book on the bookshelf.

sorry that i didn't see your post earlier.

as i said earlier, i spent much time figuring this out by trial and error where i should have been more methodical and read whatever was available. i have followed the KISS principle. but as i read your post and the ones that follow, it is more apparent to me now that perhaps it makes more sense to me than you because my books have a very unconventional format which avoids many of the issues that you discuss.

i wrote a traditional hardcopy book around 2008 before the advent of the iPod and iba. i have it on my to do list to make it an ebook someday perhaps and will need to face the issue of using a traditional format or keep the one i use. if i go more traditional, perhaps the issues you mention will become more apparent to me.

good luck to you and i hope your book is a success.

Part of the problem is a kind of blind spot on the part of the people who write the manuals..

Here is an idea for you. Layout, (view layouts) are objects with various properties. Like a tea cut. It might be green or red and tea or coffee in it or just plain water. May be green water.

So layouts have things. You might put a page in a layout or give it a name. And there are different types of layouts.

Chapter Layout

Section Layout

Section Layout named Forward

Section Layout named Introduction, with green background.

When you click of the little triangle you can change the existing chapter layout from one type to another type.

If you don't have a layout that you like, go to view Layouts and duplicate one of the existing layouts, rename it add colours etc and then when you go back to the little triangle you will see it in the list of available choices for changes the layout type.

Hope this helps.