Penn-Ohio

Q: Choosing iMac or MacPro

Looking for input and help in this decision process.  Considering an iMac over a MacPro that I currently have for space and portability convenience and want to ask folks here in the Mac Edit community for their "opinions" and/or "experience" with similar applications, work, or use.  I have retired and want to reduce the amount of work that I do plus clean up my work space from excessive cables and the like.

 

Either system I edit with FCPX, Lightroom, and Photoshop CS5 and use (will use) thunderbolt external RAID 0 Array having two internal drives, external thunderbolt mini hard drives, and an external BluRay/DVD/CD burner.  I will not edit 3D.  I will edit 1 camera 4K video eventually, but not much.  Most of my work will be no rush BUT having said that when I'm working I DON'T LIKE COLOR WHEEL WAITS or mini lock ups.  I'll eventually have thunderbolt single SSD's and hopefully sometime in 2016 thunderbolt RAID 0 with dual SSD's.

 

Below are my current and proposed specifications with the CURRENT MacPro being a Late 2013 "just above entry level" and the proposed iMac that is a Late 2015 and the very top of the iMacs.


CURRENT MacPro - PROPOSED SPEC'D iMac

 

MODEL:  6,1 Late 2013  -  Late 2015 (newest)

PROCESSOR:  3.7GHz Quad Core Xeon E5 -  4.0GHz i7 Skylake (burst to 4.3GHZ

VIDEO:  Firepro D300 2GB x 2  -  Radeon R9 M395X 4 GB GDDR5 VRAM

MEMORY: 16GB  1867 MHz DDR3 ECC-  32GB 1867MHz DDR3 ECC

SSD:  256GB  -  256GB

 

FORMER ANNUAL VIDEO WORK: 50-100 TV programs @ 3 camera HD; ~ 15 Weddings @ 3 camera HD; ~ 20 events; 20-30 commercials @ 1 camera HD; 20-30 other productions mostly @ 1 camera HD.

FORMER ANNUAL PHOTO WORK:  ~ 10 commercials; ~ 8-10 weddings; ~ 3-5 events, ~ 3-5 birthdays/anniversies

 

PROPOSED CURRENT VIDEO:  < 12 TV programs @ 1-3 camera HD; 2-5 Weddings @ 2 or 3 camera; 2-5 events @ 1-2 cameras HD; ~ 30 commercials @ 1 camera HD; 10-12 other @ 1 camera

 

Thanks to all who respond and if electing to make the iMac purchase, I will sell the MacPro and one year old Thunderbolt display.

Mac Pro, OS X El Capitan (10.11.2), 3.7 GHz, 16 Gb, Duo FirePro D300, FCPX

Posted on Dec 23, 2015 4:06 PM

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Q: Choosing iMac or MacPro

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  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Dec 24, 2015 12:16 AM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Dec 24, 2015 12:16 AM in response to Penn-Ohio

    just an opinion, no experience in that league of boxes, no 'pro' user, just an enthusiatic hobbyist here .. :

     

    I'm editing 4-6 streams multicam on my MacMini (yep, the tupperware box) on a weekly base, no beachballs - how is that? Using FCPX' smart feature to distribute media on several media (and mine are just usb3, no tb). The bulit-in effects (transforming, CC, ettc) are 'live' effects, no renderining needed, no wheels, no wait.

     

    My latest toy is a 4k cam (Lumix fz1k) - no flaws, no locks either, using proxies.

    speaking of proxies, ok, when it comes to conversions, on im- and export, I have to admit hours could be spend watching a bar, growing in snail warp speed ...

     

    Two links:

    • my 'stunt', 4x4k on a mini, set-up meanwhile improved by an ext., usb3 SSD

    • the only meanful speed-test, BruceX, 'cause FCPX is so highly integrated into MacOS and hardware, that any other benchmark is, imho!, plain waste of time. In terms of specs, my Mini is a pocket-calculator - but it runs circles around a consumer grade Windows machine, trying to perform the same, simple tasks in AP ....

     

    as said, me no technician, I'm a user, what's going on 'under the hood' is of no interest for me. The whole 'speed' discussion misses me; faster conversions would be nice... nice2have, but it makes no sense for me to spend a 5digit sum, just to wait 20min instead of 25 ....

     

    For AP, the not-so-newMP seems indeed not so well suited, what I've heard (but don't understand…Cuda? OpenGL? drivers??) its GPU doesn't suppport some speed tricks of Adobe. No first hand here, my budget doesn't allow renting software.

     

    My lil' sons latest project, a vacation movie, with hundreds of stills and a crude mix of phone-vid and actioncam-stuff, almost any frame color-corrected, home-brewn effects&titles, 35min, fullHD >> no beachballs while editing >> 1h export, and even antique iDVD (for grandma&grandpa) was done in less 30min ....

     

    tl;dr

    a nMP? breathtaking! a maxed out 2015 iMac? even breathtakinger !

    If you need it, if you need it now - buy an iMac.

     

    Will that 'brute force attack by hardware' solve your issues? I doubt.

  • by pjrails,

    pjrails pjrails Dec 24, 2015 12:37 AM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 1 (90 points)
    Dec 24, 2015 12:37 AM in response to Penn-Ohio

    Hi Penn-Ohio

     

    I've been using a 27inch iMac very successfully for nearly 10 months with FCP X and I have to say it was the best change I ever made.

    Would highly recommend

     

    All the best

    PJ

  • by Penn-Ohio,

    Penn-Ohio Penn-Ohio Dec 24, 2015 9:27 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 24, 2015 9:27 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Karsten Schlüter wrote:

     

    just an opinion, no experience in that league of boxes, no 'pro' user, just an enthusiatic hobbyist here .. :

     

    I'm editing 4-6 streams multicam on my MacMini (yep, the tupperware box) on a weekly base, no beachballs - how is that? Using FCPX' smart feature to distribute media on several media (and mine are just usb3, no tb). The bulit-in effects (transforming, CC, ettc) are 'live' effects, no renderining needed, no wheels, no wait.

     

    My latest toy is a 4k cam (Lumix fz1k) - no flaws, no locks either, using proxies.

    speaking of proxies, ok, when it comes to conversions, on im- and export, I have to admit hours could be spend watching a bar, growing in snail warp speed ... .

    Thank you for your post.  I appreciate your input. 

     

    That's quite an interesting post you have there, amazing actually.  My experience beginning with my 2013 MBP i7 2.8 isn't as good.  Although it was fine rendering it got VERY HOT and once heated it was just aghast.  Some questions:

     

    - Were the 4-6 streams coming off USB3 drives AVCHD?  HDV?  DV?  And at what rez?  I only do 1920x1080 30 or 60p

    - Does the MacMini get HOT?  If so, how does it perform thereafter?

    - Do you know if the processor in the MacMini is the same as the one in the iMac's of the same caliber?

    - How long are the video clips that you usually do?  Especially a comment on the multicam clip lengths.

  • by Penn-Ohio,

    Penn-Ohio Penn-Ohio Dec 24, 2015 9:30 AM in response to pjrails
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 24, 2015 9:30 AM in response to pjrails

    pjrails wrote:

     

    Hi Penn-Ohio

     

    I've been using a 27inch iMac very successfully for nearly 10 months with FCP X and I have to say it was the best change I ever made.

    Would highly recommend

     

    All the best

    PJ

    Awesome thanks for the response.  If you don't mind my asking, what resolution video do you process? Also, the "best change" you ever made from what before?

     

    Sorry to bug, just wondering this is my last and final chance at making another machine switch I do believe (age creeping up on me) and although I'm pleased with my MacPro, the iMac's have always been appealing to me because I only have one piece of hardware to pack around computer wise and then my drive(s) separately.  I do however wished there were more TB and USB3 ports :-)

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Dec 24, 2015 11:10 PM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Dec 24, 2015 11:10 PM in response to Penn-Ohio

    Penn-Ohio wrote:

    …- Were the 4-6 streams coming off USB3 drives AVCHD?  HDV?  DV?  And at what rez?  I only do 1920x1080 30 or 60p

    I'm on a tight/no budget … using anything I can get my hands on, so, a crude mix of 1080/50p AVCHD, 1080/100p mp4, 720/60mov ...

     

    - Does the MacMini get HOT?  If so, how does it perform thereafter?

    ... hmm, warm, I'd say. Rarely I notice the fan ... editing socer matches = loud source audio

     

    - Do you know if the processor in the MacMini is the same as the one in the iMac's of the same caliber?

    No, sorry, I don't care for hardware ... just clickin' and pushin' the mouse (not true: I 'm a true believer in my MagicTrackpd)

     

    - How long are the video clips that you usually do?  Especially a comment on the multicam clip lengths.

    my son's still in some Junior League, so usually 2x40min, not the full2x45min. One MC is made up to 6x40min clips of various flavors, see above. Meanwhile I do not convert to optimized/proxy; source files are spreaad all across my desk ... drives, thtat's the whole trick. Give each source its own platter! ok, another 'trick': I mostly switch off the angle viewer, 'cause most of my cams are unmanned.so I know #2 is left box, #3 is right box; I can edit 'blindfolded', when player reaches right goal, hit 3 = close up from new perspective.

     

    The 1080/100p stuff is pure swagger … but the boys like those super-slowmos, like that <<click lnks to YT, a fun-reel .... and to swag really: 100p source x 10% + Optical Flow in FCPX gives that .... LOL.

     

    No, no magic to perform that on a Mini ... just following advice from Apple, rippletrainng, Larry Jordan, and the wise community at fcp.co ....

  • by Penn-Ohio,

    Penn-Ohio Penn-Ohio Dec 26, 2015 9:21 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 26, 2015 9:21 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Karsten Schlüter wrote:

     

    Penn-Ohio wrote:

    …- Were the 4-6 streams coming off USB3 drives AVCHD?  HDV?  DV?  And at what rez?  I only do 1920x1080 30 or 60p

    I'm on a tight/no budget … using anything I can get my hands on, so, a crude mix of 1080/50p AVCHD, 1080/100p mp4, 720/60mov ..........

    I do appreciate your input.  Sounds like the video you do is highly enough compressed that it allows for a difficultly on the processor that given the machine I'm thinking of going to, the iMac, will definitely do the task I'm considering giving it.  Moreover, I think I need to do more training on how to work with the configuration of AVCHD, proxy, and this thing you mentioned, "smart stream" which I haven't a clue about.

     

    My work flow is typically, create a project, create a timeline event, then import media as "copy" thus the original media goes into the FCPX folders (this way I can eventually copy the entire folder anywhere from one drive to another and the project is always in tack, i.e., I can work on it via my MacPro or MacBook Pro or of course the new iMac.

     

    Although I turn out the projects, I'm not sure that I'm doing things the right way to achieve machine ease efficiency and thus the reason that I have the beachballs, mini lock ups, etc.  I'd love to hear more about your work flow; that is, what steps you take on import, when to set up proxy, and/or more detail about this "smart stream" which apparently I am doing entirely wrong or something wrong on my proxy set up.

     

    Thanks so much for your kind help in this matter.  I really appreciate it.  BTW, do you have any of your finished material online for viewing?

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Dec 27, 2015 2:38 AM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Dec 27, 2015 2:38 AM in response to Penn-Ohio

    Penn-Ohio wrote:

    … and this thing you mentioned, "smart stream" which I haven't a clue about.…

    I have to apologize confusing you, that is my own (German…) phrasing of a thing called correctly Managed Media.

    And before confusing you even more, I give over to  Larry Jordan

    https://larryjordan.com/articles/fcp-x-convert-managed-to-external-media/

     

    In my own, humble understanding of things, we still rely on mechanics when it comes to computers: a hard drive generally spoken works like a 1920 record player. So, keeping this pic in mind, it is no wonder, when you store OS (which 'swaps' all day long), App, Media, Project and Cache on one single drive, that the mechanics inside the drive are not as fast as needed.

     

    The stream of data isn't that big - therefor a fullHD AVCHD 'fits' easiely thru a usb3 connection (even 4k does...). The bottleneck is then the decoding-on-the-fly, to make the highly compressed video a frame-by-frame editable file, but for that, Apple has some smart (that word again!!) coop btw. CPU and GPU. So, to help tiny Mac and/or harddrive, my not scientifically proofed advise is; put every source on its own platter. or, perhaps just two on one drive....

     

    Drives don't cost that much, 'til ElCap, I recommended to create SoftRaids (200mbps for under 99$); but I was the only one using this feature of DiskUtility, so Apple axed it. But meanhwile external SSDs are so cheap, no need for DIY-raids....

     

    The good news is: FCPX is MADE for that kind of 'distributed streaming' - that's why I phrased a 'smart stream'; sorry, again, for not using the right nomenclatura....

     

    And the real marvel is:

    FCPX treats such distributed/managed media as one Lib! When I finish a project and want to finally store all stuff, I can consolidate all files on some cheap 3.5"hdd, and clean my speedy workhorse SSD - and I don't have to care where is what file. Very handy. OK, it can confuse you, because a 543GBs sized Lib fits onto  a 120GB drive = the files are not on that smaller drive, just the hard-links to other, managed drives.... as long as it works, I don't care

  • by Ian R. Brown,

    Ian R. Brown Ian R. Brown Dec 27, 2015 6:56 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 6 (18,659 points)
    Mac OS X
    Dec 27, 2015 6:56 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    What SSD are you using and how does it compare with your old RAIDs for speed (BlackMagic test etc.)?

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Dec 27, 2015 7:35 AM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Dec 27, 2015 7:35 AM in response to Penn-Ohio
    What SSD are you using and how does it compare with your old RAIDs for speed (BlackMagic test etc.)?

    A usb3 connected, 250Gigs Samsung

     

    samsung ssd.jpg

    it's really that small and the cable is really that short. amazon.uk actually ~87£ (just for you Ian )

     

    speed? enough ...

    DiskSpeedTestn2 Kopie.jpg

    that's my 2x1TB 2.5" Toshiba softRaid 0

     

    DiskSpeedTest_Samsung_SSD Kopie.jpg

    … and that's the Samsung - I guess that's close to max usb3-specifications ...

  • by Penn-Ohio,

    Penn-Ohio Penn-Ohio Dec 27, 2015 10:53 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 27, 2015 10:53 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Karsten Schlüter wrote:

     

    Penn-Ohio wrote:

    … and this thing you mentioned, "smart stream" which I haven't a clue about.…

    I have to apologize confusing you, that is my own (German…) phrasing of a thing called correctly Managed Media.....

     

    .... The good news is: FCPX is MADE for that kind of 'distributed streaming' - that's why I phrased a 'smart stream'; sorry, again, for not using the right nomenclatura....

     

    And the real marvel is:

    FCPX treats such distributed/managed media as one Lib! When I finish a project and want to finally store all stuff, I can consolidate all files on some cheap 3.5"hdd, and clean my speedy workhorse SSD - and I don't have to care where is what file. Very handy. OK, it can confuse you, because a 543GBs sized Lib fits onto  a 120GB drive = the files are not on that smaller drive, just the hard-links to other, managed drives.... as long as it works, I don't care

    So do I understand that you put like 1-3 cameras files on one external usb3 drive, then 1-3 on another usb3 drive, etc. and plug each drive into a separate USB3 port on your Mac mini?  Then "link" to the files instead of having FCPX copy them into the project?

     

    In part, I agree with the SSD's being cheap now.  In fact, I was thinking what an awesome arrangement would be to have 2 or 3v SSD's in a RAID 0 enclosure; that is, SSD's of the 6GBs type.  Know anyone doing that?

  • by Luis Sequeira1,

    Luis Sequeira1 Luis Sequeira1 Dec 27, 2015 11:15 AM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 6 (12,122 points)
    Mac OS X
    Dec 27, 2015 11:15 AM in response to Penn-Ohio

    Penn-Ohio wrote:

     

    In part, I agree with the SSD's being cheap now.  In fact, I was thinking what an awesome arrangement would be to have 2 or 3v SSD's in a RAID 0 enclosure; that is, SSD's of the 6GBs type.  Know anyone doing that?

     

    As Karsten noted, his *single* SSD is now close to saturating the speed of the USB3 bus - so two of them would only be marginally faster than one; the bus would be the bottleneck.

    In order to get extra speed by putting two or three in a box as RAID0, you need to have that box connect to your mac over Thunderbolt.

  • by Penn-Ohio,

    Penn-Ohio Penn-Ohio Dec 27, 2015 12:06 PM in response to Luis Sequeira1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 27, 2015 12:06 PM in response to Luis Sequeira1

    Luis Sequeira1 wrote:

     

    .....As Karsten noted, his *single* SSD is now close to saturating the speed of the USB3 bus - so two of them would only be marginally faster than one; the bus would be the bottleneck.  In order to get extra speed by putting two or three in a box as RAID0, you need to have that box connect to your mac over Thunderbolt.

    I'll have to take a hard look into an external SSD enclosure for 2-3 drives in a RAID0 that is Thunderbolt connection (like my current TB external DUAL SATA RAID0 config.  I like the idea.  Would not only be faster but lower power requirement.  Awesome idea.

     

    Luis you have an iMac?  What's your own personal experience?  Especially, do you do multi streams of AVCHD cameras?

  • by Penn-Ohio,

    Penn-Ohio Penn-Ohio Dec 27, 2015 3:03 PM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 27, 2015 3:03 PM in response to Penn-Ohio

    BTW folks, I just ran a drive read/write test and discovered that for some reason my Thunderbolt External Dual Drive RAID0 (rotating drives) is not giving me the speeds that it advertised, instead it is kicking at just over 200MBs which is half of what I had hoped for.  I found a newly offered external USB3 500GB SSD up to 540MBs for just over $200 and gonna try that to see if I can eliminate the beachballs.  What a bummer.  I've run for a year and half with that kind of speed and wondered why things aren't screaming fast with zero issues.

     

    Also, as of now, I've ordered the iMac as follows and believe once the external drive matter is straightened out will work for anything I can throw at it :

     

    27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display

     

     

    • 4.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.2GHz
    • 32GB 1867MHz DDR3 SDRAM - four 8GB
    • 256GB Flash Storage
    • AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 4GB video memory
    • Magic Mouse 2
    • Magic Keyboard (English) & User’s Guide
    • Accessory Kit


    Any thoughts?  I have 14 days to decide if I like it or no questions asked full refund return.


    THANKS TO ALL . . for the continued help in this matter and I'll keep this thread open until the 14 days are expired in case there is someone who might jump in and give some adequate reason not to make the switch from MacPro to iMac and to keep the external SSD discussions live.

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Dec 28, 2015 2:12 AM in response to Penn-Ohio
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Dec 28, 2015 2:12 AM in response to Penn-Ohio

    Penn-Ohio wrote:

    So do I understand that you put like 1-3 cameras files on one external usb3 drive, then 1-3 on another usb3 drive, etc. and plug each drive into a separate USB3 port on your Mac mini?  Then "link" to the files instead of having FCPX copy them into the project?

    That's the intended way...

     

    <wiseguy modeON>

    You don't copy/add source-files to a project, but to an Event ...

    <wiseguy modeOFF>



    a SSD-Raid0 could be beast - but a) the internal SATA protocol of a drive gets the limiting factor (inside a Mac, SSDs are PCI (sort-of) connected) and b) what for? I like to call that 'brute force hardware' , because you install specs you never need/use. All consumer devices/cameras use  4:2:0/8bit compression only, so even 4k has a 'lame' rate of bits trickling thru the wires.... OK, diff. cup of tea in the Major League, 10bit, 4:2:2/4:4:4, Atomos Ninja recorders, Alexa cameras, Hollywood....-


    Same with your choice of 32Gigs of Ram - wow.

    But of little use with FCPX (diff. story with Adobe products....); FCPX utilizes massively the GPU. … and your choice is max anyhow.


    German phrase "Shooting with canons at sparrows" ...

    For 'normal' HDef editing, your actual set-up is more than enough.

    If you notice hickups, check your set-up, not your checkbook...


    … which doesn't mean, an iMac Retina/4GB GPU isn't my dreammachine, even for a hobbyist like me  … somehow, this year Santa missed his opportunity to make me happy and came just with some iTS giftcards ...

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