BinsuJiro

Q: Tired of El Capitan Font Issues

I'm tired of El Capitan font issues!

 

I have removed all but the System Installed Fonts, yet there are constant font conflicts and the display of gibberish characters.

 

Apple's font management application will not do a comparison of ALL fonts residing on my computer, so fonts that I use for my design work cannot be analyzed alongside the newly installed system fonts.

 

Again, people at Apple are deciding things that should be the decision of their users, and imposing their judgement and design esthetics on the people who pay for their products.

 

MessagesScreenSnapz001.png

 

Any help would be appreciated.

MacBook Pro, OS X El Capitan (10.11.1), iPad, iPhone and iOS 9.1

Posted on Jan 7, 2016 3:06 PM

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Q: Tired of El Capitan Font Issues

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  • by BinsuJiro,

    BinsuJiro BinsuJiro Jan 9, 2016 3:30 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2016 3:30 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt,

     

    I ran "Restore Standard Fonts" several times and most of the font anomalies have disappeared.

     

    The root Font Folder [System/Library/Fonts now contains the following:

    FontFolderContent.jpg

    Also, 214 items now reside in Library/Fonts and all of the remaining fonts have been moved to a folder on my Desktop.

    Now I want to remove the file that you referenced, com.apple.FontRegistry, but found several similarly named files/folders:

    EasyFindScreenSnapz001.png

    Should I remove all of these or one in particular?

     

    After this I will move Font Book to a safe place on a remote drive in case I need it later, and rely on FontExplorerX Pro for font management. I will then create a set in FEX Pro that matches what is in the root fond folder, which is more than just the basic fonts that you described in your detailed article.

     

    Hopefully FEX Pro will be able to use the set that I create to restore what exists now if it gets messed up again.

     

    Does this sound like a good plan to you?

     

    Thanks

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jan 10, 2016 2:40 PM in response to BinsuJiro
    Level 8 (37,696 points)
    Jan 10, 2016 2:40 PM in response to BinsuJiro

    Sorry about the delay. I was doing some testing to see where Font Book really keeps its database. Because I very much avoid using, or even looking at Font Book, it's been quite a while since I really tested it to see what happens when you do X.

     

    The fonts you list as remaining in the System's Fonts folder, and the root Library's Fonts folder are now only the ones OS X installs (if Restore Standard Fonts removed anything at all). Next to each of those Fonts folders, you will find one named Fonts (Removed). Anything in them are fonts the command moved that it thinks don't belong in the two Fonts folders.

     

    Absolutely do not remove the two files named com.apple.FontRegistryUIAgent.plist in the System folder. Your list shows only one of them, but there are two in separate folders. Without them, the system will not boot. Not even in Safe Mode.

     

    The two items shown as folders don't belong to Font Book at all. They are created by and updated by the OS regardless of what font manager is on the drive. Or any at all.

     

    The only one that belongs to Font Book is com.apple.FontRegistry.user.plist in your user account Preferences folder. This file is only created if you add fonts as a standard Collection set with Font Book. If you only adds fonts to Font Book as a Library set (activate in place), it will never be created. So this item is the only one you should remove. Then restart.

     

    If you are still seeing text as question marks in a box after that, then something that is part of your FEX Pro library is causing it. And typically, that's a font which is specifically conflicting with one of El Capitan's system fonts. That is, a font which itself is a system font from either an older version of OS X, or is a duplicate of one or more of El Capitan's system fonts.

  • by BobTheFisherman,

    BobTheFisherman BobTheFisherman Jan 10, 2016 2:34 PM in response to pinkstones
    Level 6 (15,269 points)
    Jan 10, 2016 2:34 PM in response to pinkstones

    pinkstones wrote:

     

    If you don't have the time to read something a member here provided for you in an attempt to help you with your problem, and if you're going to be dismissive of that help, what exactly do you want any of us to do?

    FWIW, I concur. Everyone here is donating time to help. If the poster looking for help can not or will not dedicate the time necessary to help himself there is not much for anyone here to do.

  • by BinsuJiro,

    BinsuJiro BinsuJiro Jan 11, 2016 9:25 AM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 11, 2016 9:25 AM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt,

     

    Thank you very much for putting this information together. I will digest the data and proceed from there.

     

    As I mentioned in a prior message, since restoring standard fonts using Font Book, all of the Apple applications that I have tested so far seem to be working well.

     

    However, QuarkXPress now replaces all Futura fonts in the Futura family with "Ω." The funny thing about this is that where I had applied shadows to some of the typography the shadows of the particular characters to which the style was applied render properly,but the character tow which it is applied either does not render to the screen at all or appears as"Ω."

     

    I removed all of the fonts from: Library/Fonts and User/Library/Fonts into a folder on the partitioned drive that holds all of the fonts I use for Design work, and will reactivate them from that location. I will let you know if that resolves the issues in QXP.

  • by BinsuJiro,

    BinsuJiro BinsuJiro Jan 11, 2016 9:27 AM in response to BobTheFisherman
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 11, 2016 9:27 AM in response to BobTheFisherman

    Bob the Fisherman,

     

    I have been working very closely with those trying to help, but you and Pinkstone are not helping and are sticking your collective noses in where they don't belong.

     

    So, just mind your own business.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jan 11, 2016 9:34 AM in response to BinsuJiro
    Level 8 (37,696 points)
    Jan 11, 2016 9:34 AM in response to BinsuJiro

    It also may be due to Quark's own font cache files. Close Quark XPress. In your user account Preferences folder, open the folder Quark > Quark XPress 2015 > jaws. Put the folder FontStubs in the trash. The path will of course be slightly different depending on the version of Quark XPress you're using.

  • by BinsuJiro,

    BinsuJiro BinsuJiro Jan 12, 2016 6:51 AM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 12, 2016 6:51 AM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt,

     

    I followed your advice about the QXP preference file, but QXP still did not recognize Futura if FontExplorerX Pro added it back as an active font.

     

    After moving all of the fonts from /Library/Fonts to a folder on a partition, I created a set of the fonts removed from /Library/Fonts in FontExplorerX Pro [FEXP] and activated that set.

     

    Based on some preliminary tests they all seemed to be available to as many Apple applications that I had time to test. I tried to add Futura to that set, but while it was available inconsistently to applications it was not available in QXP, which is of immediate concern. Many of the other issues I mentioned early in the thread seem to be resolved.

     

    I then manually added all of the Futura Family of fonts to /Library/Fonts, and they instantly became available in all applications that I was able to test, but most importantly they were available in QXP.

     

    Interestingly, the number of fonts available in any particular application was different depending on what application was being used. I believe that Corel's Painter made the most number of fonts available.

     

    Just thinking about all this makes my head hurt. Clearly there is an issue that remains, but I'm at a loss as to how to troubleshoot any further. What is happening seems to happen in spite of font management by FEXP; QXP does not behave the same as some other applications in regard to font management; Painter seems to have every font activated always available, but I have not tested whether FEXP can activate or deactivate fonts that are available in Painter.

     

    The manually added Futura fonts are available in QXP, Photoshop, Painter and Illustrator.

     

    At this time I don't know where to go; the combinations and possible permutations of those combinations have just gotten me confused. I'm sure the issue is not systematically resolved across all applications, or that on El Capitan FEXP is able to properly manage fonts system wide for all applications, or that QXP properly manages fonts in conjunction with FEXP.

     

    At this time the anomalies with my Apple applications seem to be resolved and the Futura Family of fonts is now available in all the applications I was able to test.

     

    Kurt, I thank you for your great advice, and thoughtful help. I would like to get this straight, though, and perhaps we could work on these issues off of the forum.

     

    Please let me know if this is something we could do.

     

    To everyone else who assisted in this issue, Thank you!

     

    Vincent

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jan 12, 2016 7:38 AM in response to BinsuJiro
    Level 8 (37,696 points)
    Jan 12, 2016 7:38 AM in response to BinsuJiro

    I followed your advice about the QXP preference file, but QXP still did not recognize Futura if FontExplorerX Pro added it back as an active font.

    No, but I wasn't expecting that to happen. I was just hoping clearing Quark's cache data might fix the Futura set showing up as an omega Ω symbol.

    I then manually added all of the Futura Family of fonts to /Library/Fonts, and they instantly became available in all applications that I was able to test, but most importantly they were available in QXP.

    I would suspect this was the issue, if I'm reading it right. From the sounds of things, you moved the OS X supplied Futura.ttc out of the /Library/Fonts/ folder, then put a different set in, such as a Futura set purchased from Adobe. If that's the case, then that's exactly why XPress wouldn't show Futura in its menus. Quark will never show conflicting fonts. So before you moved Futura.ttc out of the /Library/Fonts/ folder, you had a conflict between that TrueType Collection and the third party set being activated by FEX Pro.


    Many apps will show one version or the other of a conflicting font in their menus. Quark won't. That's usually a big hint there's a font conflict.

  • by BobTheFisherman,

    BobTheFisherman BobTheFisherman Jan 12, 2016 8:06 AM in response to BinsuJiro
    Level 6 (15,269 points)
    Jan 12, 2016 8:06 AM in response to BinsuJiro

    BinsuJiro wrote:

     

    Bob the Fisherman,

     

    I have been working very closely with those trying to help, but you and Pinkstone are not helping and are sticking your collective noses in where they don't belong.

     

    So, just mind your own business.

    This is your statement.

     

    " However, I don't have the time to read this article, and it does not cover the entire list of fonts installed in SYSTEM/LIBRARY/FONTS. Nor can I divert my time from work for clients to correct problems cased by Apple's arrogance in not providing a way to deal with proper font management. I use Asian fonts, yet the article really does not address the placement of Asian fonts in the various folders of the El Capitan system."


    I was merely pointing out that you don't have the time but expect the volunteers trying to help you to devote their time away from their primary tasks to help you. By making this point I was trying to alert you that you will get the best help here by participating with those like Tom trying to help you. I'll let you get back to, in your opinion, your more important work/clients than ours.

  • by BinsuJiro,

    BinsuJiro BinsuJiro Jan 12, 2016 1:57 PM in response to BobTheFisherman
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 12, 2016 1:57 PM in response to BobTheFisherman

    Bob,

     

    What exactly is your problem? Don't you read? don't you see what is going on here? Except for you and pinkstone, everyone is working on the issue only you two are disrupting the conversation.

     

    Stop wasting my time.

  • by pinkstones,

    pinkstones pinkstones Jan 12, 2016 2:56 PM in response to BinsuJiro
    Level 5 (4,209 points)
    Safari
    Jan 12, 2016 2:56 PM in response to BinsuJiro

    Excuse me?  I've only said one thing to you, and that's it.  Please do not drag me into problems you're having with other members here. 

  • by BinsuJiro,

    BinsuJiro BinsuJiro Jan 12, 2016 3:11 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 12, 2016 3:11 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    The strangeness continues:

     

    It seems that if I activate any font via FEXP that does not already reside in one of the designated System sanctioned folders it will not print to the screen in a document properly, but will display in the QXP font menu. And, the issue is not isolated to the Futura family of fonts. The same happens with Bembo and a number of other fonts I tested. Please note, that my testing is being restricted to fonts relative to use by QXP and activation by FEXP. Further testing with other applications will proceed after I get QUX working.

     

    If they are loaded by dropping them into /Library/Fonts, and then activated by FEXP, they will display properly in a document and in the Font Menu. This worked the same for each font tested.

     

    Also, BOTH Futura.ttc and my purchased Adobe Futura Family fonts will work side by side with no conflict, if the Adobe Futura family fonts are added and activated initially by dropping into /Library/Fonts. In this physical location they can both be activated and deactivated by FEXP and that activation and deactivation will translate into the proper activity in QXP.

     

    However, Futura.ttc can be activated from any physical location, even a partition of my drive, while Adobe purchased fonts and fonts from other foundries need to be activated by having FIRST been placed in /Library/Fonts. Under that condition they can then be activated and deactivated by FEXP.

     

    It seems that Apple has taken a number of steps backwards that makes their OS less friendly to graphic designers, and it seems that both Monotype and Quark need to work out some problems running their applications on the El Capitan platform.

     

    But, if Apple keeps making fundamental changes in the way certain core functions work, like font management, I believe they will start to loose market share among graphic designers who don't have countless hours to play with this stuff.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jan 12, 2016 3:49 PM in response to BinsuJiro
    Level 8 (37,696 points)
    Jan 12, 2016 3:49 PM in response to BinsuJiro

    Hmm. Something isn't working as it should on your Mac. As mentioned earlier, other than the known El Capitan bug that can be worked around for legacy Mac TrueType and Type 1 PostScript fonts, I'm not having any issues with fonts in El Capitan.

     

    Create a new test account. Login to it and see if the  problems persist there. If not, then the issue is somewhere in your normal user account. If it has the same problem, then it's a system wide issue. If that's the case, reinstall the OS. And if that doesn't work, your only fix would be to revert to the OS you were on from a backup, or install El Capitan from scratch on an erased partition so any old problems can't be dragged into it. That of course also means reinstalling your apps from scratch and manually pulling your personal data in from a backup. Do not import anything or you may simply restore the problem.

  • by christoph1211,

    christoph1211 christoph1211 Jan 28, 2016 8:44 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 28, 2016 8:44 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt,

     

    thank you very much for helping. I ran into the exact same problem as BinsuJiroand your hint concerning the preference file of FontBook helped me resolve the issue. Strangely I never ever started FontBook, so I wonder, why FontBook ever created thi file, but nevertheless... now all is good. THANKS A LOT!

     

    Kind regards,

    Chris

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jan 29, 2016 6:48 AM in response to christoph1211
    Level 8 (37,696 points)
    Jan 29, 2016 6:48 AM in response to christoph1211

    You're welcome.

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