Logic Pro X Limiter vs Adaptive Limiter?

I come from a school that gives my students (I'm a professional educator, and Apple certified master trainer) the tools to find their own answers, so they can move forward and prosper in the future. I could tell you something extensively technical in my own words, or I could get you the source of the information, where you could find even more information, and be more independent, not reliant on a forum more than you should be. Two old sayings, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth", and "give a man a fish... teach a man to fish."

Some posts don't get answered for a long time, I've personally no clue why. You'd have to ask the people who don't answer posts that question.

From the user manual:

"Limiter

Limiter works much like a compressor but with one important difference: where a compressor proportionally reduces the signal when it exceeds the threshold, a limiter reduces any peak above the threshold to the threshold level, effectively limiting the signal to this level.

Limiter is used primarily when mastering. Typically, you apply Limiter as the very last process in the mastering signal chain, where it raises the overall volume of the signal so that it reaches, but does not exceed, 0 dB.

Limiter is designed in such a way that if set to 0 dB Gain and 0 dB Output Level, it has no effect on a normalized signal. If the signal clips, Limiter reduces the level before clipping can occur. Limiter cannot, however, fix audio that is clipped during recording."

"Adaptive Limiter

Adaptive Limiter is a versatile tool for controlling the perceived loudness of sounds. It works by rounding and smoothing peaks in the signal, producing an effect similar to an analog amplifier being driven hard. Like an amplifier, it can slightly color the sound of the signal. You can use Adaptive Limiter to achieve maximum gain, without introducing unwanted distortion and clipping, which can occur when the signal exceeds 0 dBFS.

Adaptive Limiter is typically used on the final mix, where it can be placed after a compressor, such as Multipressor, and before a final gain control, resulting in a mix of maximum loudness. Adaptive Limiter can produce a louder-sounding mix than can be achieved by normalizing the signal.

Note: Using Adaptive Limiter adds latency when the Lookahead parameter is active. The effect is typically used for mixing and mastering previously recorded tracks, not while recording. Bypass Adaptive Limiter while recording."

Your post comes 3 MONTHS after the last post and have not posted anything useful for the OP.

BenB is not being condescending. He is being straightforward and helpful.

If you have nothing productive to add to the original poster's thread, don't post. Really. No one appointed you to police the the forums.

x

Hello,

Even with this I'm still a little unclear about when to use one over the other. It sounds to me like you use the Adaptive Limiter to increase your RMS/LUFS levels (increasing the PERCEIVED loudness), while the Limiter is simply used to to prevent sound from exceeding 0dB, essentially PEAK loudness. My first question is this: Does that mean you use both plugins on a mastering chain to raise your RMS values and then also prevent clipping with the standard Limiter (the documentations says that there is usually a final gain control AFTER the Adaptive Limiter. Would this take shape in the form of a Limiter after the Ad Limiter in the chain)? I wonder this because the Adaptive Limiter documentation says that it allows you to achieve maximum gain, making it seem as though the standard Limiter is no longer necessary because your signal is now at 0dB, making the additional Limiter redundant. I'm quite confused about this.

My second question is this: Why does the input on the Adaptive Limiter exceed 0dB and still produce no change in the reduction meter until it is pushed pretty far? This is different than the standard limiter, because when the input in Limiter hits zero, you see an exact correlation of reduction immediately. What is Adaptive Limiter doing that requires so much input to get reduction, let alone 0dB output levels?

Thank you.

Now this is an interesting question. I believe I have enough information from the others to "dive in" for my own purposes but I do hope someone can answer this last detailed question by ProfessorAR -- unless you've already found your answer? If so, please share!

Great Question! I have been using Logic Pro for about eight years and from what I can tell you; the Main difference between the two is with the Look Ahead settings and the Input scale.

Early on in my experience: I ran into a weird issue with an unknown delay in certain Logic track channels. I found the timing to be out of sync with other tracks, by just a slight hair. After going through my whole effects chain on each channel, I then discovered the Adaptive limiter was the culprit, due to it's own longer look ahead settings. Keep in mind, that both the Adaptive Limiter and Limiter have a look ahead function... so both will add latency, just one will be more than the other. I believe this all ties in with the science of plugin delay compensation (PDC).

On a side note: When I use either the Ad Limiter or the Limiter, I always make sure I set the out ceiling a couple ticks below 0db, like -0.3. Otherwise it may clip... IMHO, the algorithm coded with these internal Logic Pro X Plugins can be a little wonky sometimes, that's why I like to set the out ceiling a little below, just to be on the safe side.

Side Note 2: There is huge difference between old and new Ad Limiter preset settings from the different Logic versions, like X vs 9 (big debate about it, at this forum here: gearslutz.com ).

In turn, I have now made a general rule with my mixing process, which is to only use the Limiter on my instrument channels and or groups and to only use the Adaptive Limiter on the master output channel. Bottom line is: If you are using the Ad Limiter and you think it's causing some funkiness, try resetting it or replacing it with the Limiter. And if you want to do a true mastering, just bounce everything out as stems and import into something like Sound Track Pro. I hope this helps and I was able to answer you question? Please let me know how things work for you?

Cheers,

Bryan

LogicProHacks.com

YouTube Tutorials on Hacking Logic

The Logic Pro X Effects guide has all of this information and explains the differences very clearly.

Limiter

http://help.apple.com/logicpro-effects/mac/10.2.3/#/lgcef1becd08

Adaptive Limiter

http://help.apple.com/logicpro-effects/mac/10.2.3/#/lgcef1becbb8

Hi Ben, your level 6 status is very exceptional and shows your a great asset to the Apple forum. However, I did notice the original question was posted in January and I am finding quite curious the answers were just now posted. Is this the norm here? Also, I found your links to be somewhat helpful, but I come from the school that it's better to answer in your own words, than link to some manual... Cheers!

It's one thing to post the links to the manuals, it's another thing all together to be so condescending.