WiFi MenuBar pulldown

Question

Level 2

200 points

WiFi MenuBar pulldown

Hi, I'm used to seeing a list of available networks when I click on the WiFi menubar pulldown, each listing with a network name or SSID, a lock showing that it's password protected and a relative radio strength set of power bars. And I see that for a network whether it's the chosen network at the top of the list or any one further down the list. So far so good.

Recently, I chose to remove a Frontier (Netgear) router that was supplied with my "tiber to the home" internet and I replaced that router (found out by talking with Frontier that I could do so) and replaced it with an Apple Airport Extreme (one of the older 802.11n units from maybe five years ago??). Note that Frontier uses a PPPoE connection type even though the service is NOT truly DSL. That's why I was able to toss their modem/router which was, in fact, only acting as a router, thus I could replace their router with one of my own. I just like the Apple routers better... I have two and know how to change settings, etc.

When the Frontier router was still running the show, my menubar pulldown would show it's lock, power level and all just as I described above even when it was chosen and at the top of the list. However, when I changed things such that my Apple Airport Extreme was now the router, when THAT network is selected at the top of the list, the lock and power level indicator go away and instead there is a simple "choice cursor" (my words) and next to that cursor if you hover your mouse over it is a grayed out "PPPoE connected" message and another active (not grayed out) choice which says "Disconnect" although I've highlighted that and it seems to do nothing... If that network is not the top choice and is instead down the list, it shows up as normal with the lock and power level. But make it active (at the top) and this never before seen pair of choices (sort of) appear.

It appears to be something related to a PPPoE connection and it ONLY shows up when it's an Airport Extreme (or at least an Apple router) doing the deal.

Any ideas why that is there and whether it matters to me??? It concerned me at first that the LOCK disappears but only if I'm already connected to it. Again, when that network is not selected the lock is there. And if you try to connect to it with say the wrong password, it won't work.

So anyone know why this special PPPoE related network pulldown shows up when using an Apple router???

See an attached picture showing nearby networks along with my chosen network at the top but where the normal lock and power level has been replaced by the carrot with the two choices out to the right... The network names were intentionally chopped off when I took the screenshot.

Thoughts as to why that is there and it seems to only do this when I'm using an Apple Router in the PPPoE mode???

thanks.. bob

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X El Capitan (10.11.2)

Posted on Feb 10, 2016 10:20 PM

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Answer 1

Feb 10, 2016 11:00 PM in response to Robert Paris

Can you also post a screenshot from the airport utility of your Extreme setup.

What is the actual model of the extreme and running which firmware?

I can try and reproduce what you are seeing.

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Answer 2

Feb 10, 2016 11:31 PM in response to LaPastenague

I setup a laptop (MBP 2011) which I clean installed El Capo onto.. so not as recent as your MBPr

I cannot reproduce what you are seeing. I do get the extra little menu to select to disconnect PPPOE or force a connection when it fails..

The AE is not particularly reliable in PPPOE mode btw.. I have issues running it like this, although much depends on the ISP setup.

But I don't think that has anything to do with the display going wrong.

Have you tried changing over to the internal video (if you MBPr has a separate video).

It could be a video issue or a wireless driver issue.. I more inclined to think this might be video.

If you have upgrade installed el capo I would expect all kinds of strange things to happen.

I am not sure if this helps you at all but it shows the driver for video and wireless.

One of the things we do recommend to help when things go wrong after upgrade install, do a NVRAM (PRAM was old term) and SMC reset.

That can often get the right drivers in place when the upgrade misses doing that.

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Answer 3

Robert Paris Author

Level 2

200 points

Feb 11, 2016 9:14 AM in response to LaPastenague

Hi.. Thanks for the responses. You confused me when you said,

"...I cannot reproduce what you are seeing. I do get the extra little menu to select to disconnect PPPOE or force a connection when it fails.."

Because, in fact, you DID reproduce what I'm seeing, precisely. You show your "minimewifi" selected as your current, active wifi connection and its lock and power level indicator are gone and instead replaced with the carrot symbol that is showing two possible choice selections, the grayed out "PPPoE Connected" choice and the "Disconnect" choice. That's exactly what I'm seeing and what I'm asking about????

When the Frontier router was connected and I was running off of that, it just showed at the top of the list like any other network, with it's lock and power level showing and with the check mark to the left noting that it was the currently connected wifi network. And that's what I've also observed any time I have had an Airport Extreme connected to a DHCP based network, just the normal lock and power level at the top of the list with the check mark showing that top listed wifi network is also the connected network.

But it's ONLY when I now connect an Airport Extreme to a PPPoE authenticated network that I get this never before seen wifi pulldown that shows the lock and power level icons gone and instead replaced by this dual choice carrot (with the two choices again being "PPPoE Connected" or "Disconnect"). That is precisely what I am asking about, why that carrot and the two choices next to your minimewifi selection instead of the more normal lock and power level icons you see if you're NOT running PPPoE on an Airport Extreme (again, even running PPPoE, I don't see that dual choice deal when the Frontier router (actually a Netgear 7550) is running the show.

Thoughts about why that dual choice carrot ONLY shows up when 1) I'm running a PPPoE network and 2) when I'm using an Airport Extreme instead of, in this case, a Netgear model 7550 router????

And regarding your questions about what version of Airport Extreme I am running, this is an older one I purchased in late 2007 which makes it, I believe, a 1st Generation 802.11n Airport Extreme. The Firmware Version is 7.6.4 and it appears that is the most current version for that particular 1st generation device. See screenshots.

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Answer 4

Feb 11, 2016 1:47 PM in response to Robert Paris

Ok.. I was looking for the wrong thing.. I didn't realise you had cut off the screenshot showing the wifi names.. I thought the names were missing.. silly me.

So we are both seeing exactly the same thing.. I have tested it now on another computer.. and over Mountain Lion and Yosemite as well as El Capo and it is the standard way WiFi shows a PPPOE connection.

This is the way Apple wants to control the PPPOE.

Thoughts about why that dual choice carrot ONLY shows up when 1) I'm running a PPPoE network and 2) when I'm using an Airport Extreme instead of, in this case, a Netgear model 7550 router????

It shows up because control over PPPOE links is important. And as is common Apple forgot to include it in the airport utility.

Almost every router known to mankind, has some method of forcing PPPOE links.

Apple routers don't, so they moved the function to the WiFi icon.

One problem.. it doesn't actually work. I tried forcing it to connect and then to disconnect once a connection was made.. in neither case did it achieve anything. This is most obvious from the disconnect of course.. when you hit a disconnect PPPOE it should be just about instant.. but nothing.. nada.. completely nothing.

As mentioned PPPOE is poor on apple routers.

The reason it doesn't happen on Netgear is very simple.. The Apple computer has no idea what is going on. Netgear does not have a control function on port 5009. That is uniquely Airport. Plus it has all the controls you could need in a standard HTML gui .. you don't need PPPOE disconnect or connect because they are provided by the router GUI. Apple have none so seem to have attempted (unsuccessfully I do note) to include it at the WiFi controls.

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Answer 5

Robert Paris Author

Level 2

200 points

Feb 11, 2016 2:01 PM in response to LaPastenague

Great... Yeah, I just chopped off the names of the different networks when I made the screen shot. But now you and I are on the same page. And like you said, I've tried the "Disconnect" and it, as you said, does absolutely nothing. I was more curious as to why the Apple router would put that up while the Netgear router did not even though they are both involved with PPPoE connections in my case.

So one last question. The real concern is/was that when I first saw that the LOCK was no longer present, that made me wonder (I tend to be paranoid) whether something happened to make this network (MY network) OPEN to the public after I connected to it via PPPoE with the Apple router. That would, of course, be unacceptable.

But I certainly needed a password to connect to this network in the first place (as well as PPPoE credentials) and I also notice that if I connect my mac to a different network and allow that one to fall down the list, that it immediately reverts to a standard icon with the LOCK and a POWER LEVEL displayed.

So that was my real concern. The LOCK disappearing. Can you / do you confirm that when selected and connected, that that PPPoE network IS still secure???

I've had this older Apple Airport Extreme running this network for only a day now and so far it's stayed connected nicely. The Frontier router actually hung up about once every day or so and I decided (think anyway) that it was radio interference between that wireless router and others nearby. I had to power it down and back up to reconnect fairly often. I changed its radio channel once and later set it to switch channels automatically. That helped some. If this Apple router works, I am intending to go buy a new one just because I think they now have better radios with more power to reach all over my house... Likely I don't need it but I like to keep my hardware sort of current and I was surprised when I looked up when I bought that first AE (I have two, one purchase in 2014 that is on a different network) and found that it was over 8 years old.

So give your thoughts on my one question above, does the LOCK disappearing mean anything about network security??? I'm pretty sure not but I"d like to hear other's thoughts on that...

And thanks for your help on the what and why of the "carrot" choices on PPPoE connections to Apple AE routers...

bob

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Answer 6

Feb 11, 2016 3:54 PM in response to Robert Paris

So that was my real concern. The LOCK disappearing. Can you / do you confirm that when selected and connected, that that PPPoE network IS still secure???

NO problem on that.. it is still using the full wireless security.

The change is merely to the display.. not to the wireless nature of the Airport.

You should be able to get info from terminal about the link.. although terminal commands have changed alot recently.. it was a simple airport -I

I cannot check it now because I returned my network to its normal configuration.. As I said for me the airport is not stable at all when it handles PPPOE.. interesting your result is the opposite. That is one of the issues of internet.. it is very hard to get consistent results.

And like you said, I've tried the "Disconnect" and it, as you said, does absolutely nothing.

Hmm.. interesting to include a function that is non-functional. Why bother going to the effort when it doesn't actually do anything??

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Answer 7

Robert Paris Author

Level 2

200 points

Feb 11, 2016 3:59 PM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks for the help. I am not at all as smart as I wished I was when it comes to computer and network security. So I always like to bounce things off other folks who likely have more experience and knowledge that I have. I do appreciate the help.

I will run this for a number of days and if it seems to stay connected and reliable, I will likely do what I said above, buy a new AE with better radios and I think they run cooler as well. I don't like having HOT equipment cooking in the home when I'm gone. I just finished putting a temp sensor on the top of the older (2007) AE and it runs at about 107 degF. I now have the same temp sensor on top of the newer AE (2014) I also have running on a second network. Will take another hour before I can get a stable temperature reading but just touching the tops of the two boxes I can tell the newer one runs significantly cooler...

Thanks again for the help.

bob

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Answer 8

Feb 11, 2016 4:09 PM in response to Robert Paris

The new AE is fan cooled but has not been as reliable as we would like.

It is well and truly due and overdue for replacement.. although when apple plan to replace I really don't know of course.

Feeling temperatures is really only useful on identical items.. unfortunately if something like the AE is fan cooled it reveals nothing much of what is happening inside.

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Answer 9

Robert Paris Author

Level 2

200 points

Feb 11, 2016 4:27 PM in response to LaPastenague

My second one was purchased in June, 2014 so about 1 1/2 years ago. Would that be in the range of you saying the "newer" ones are fan cooled??? Does the fan make much noise because I've never heard the June, 2014 version make any sounds that I can make out???

thanks... bob

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Answer 10

Feb 11, 2016 5:31 PM in response to Robert Paris

If your second one is shaped like a "tower".....see picture below......that is the newer one. There is a fan inside that runs all the time, but it is very quiet.....unless it gets dirty and then it can make all sorts of noises. You probably won't hear it even if you put your ear up to the device.....and you won't feel any air moving if you hold your hand up to the bottom of the device where the air vents are located.

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Answer 11

Robert Paris Author

Level 2

200 points

Feb 11, 2016 5:45 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Hi, Yes my "June 2014" unit is the tower like you describe. I just completed measuring the temperature of both units where they feel warmest, on the top. The late 2007 unit that is 1st generation 802.11n runs at 107 degF and this newer one I just measured for the same amount of time (one hour) with the same temperature monitor and I got 92 degF. So 15 degrees cooler... Again, I just don't like little toasters running all over the house when I'm not around.

thanks for the help... bob

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