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files in Fxx folders show in my itunes directory.

can somebody link me to an explanation of the Fxx folders on my ipod. when i scan the itunes directory on my PC i see some music in a directory on my c drive /ipod_control/music/Fxx - so i am curious as heck.

iPod classic, Windows 10

Posted on Feb 14, 2016 3:23 PM

Reply
15 replies

Feb 14, 2016 7:28 PM in response to turingtest2

the music files are actually on e:\music

itunes trawis the entire computer for files it "wants" to index - whether they are in my music or video directories or not (much to my annoyance, but that's another story). it found, and indexed, everything in e:\music

i was trying to copy files (completely kosher) from e to the device, and then scanned the itunes listing; a lot of stuff in the Fxx files is as you say named pseudorandomly, presumably linked to the device serial number. but in the middle of these pseudorandom file names were real file names exactly as seen on the e drive. i recall looking at an ipod as a disk drive, and it has the same Fxx folders with similar pseudorandom file names. i did try some time ago (unsuccessfully) to copy from one ipod to another on the same pc by treating them both as disk drives

it seems there is a lot of file detail confusion between the itunes library and the way files are tagged in windows. and, changing file details in windows is a RPIA. plus, itunes column headings (album/album by artist/album by year, etc) is utterly unclear.

so, no attempt was made to copy *from* the ipod *to* the PC.

thanks...

Feb 15, 2016 6:15 AM in response to sophocles2715

Is E: the drive letter that iTunes assigned to your iPod in Explorer? Otherwise, the presence of the ipod_control folder can only be the result of specific action to copy this and its content from your iPod to the E: drive. This could be a leftover from when you "did try some time ago (unsuccessfully) to copy from one ipod to another on the same pc by treating them both as disk drives" - this can't be done as a one-step operation, though it is possible to copy the iPod_control\music folder from an iPod to your PC, add the resulting media files to iTunes (where the obfuscated file names become irrelevant since - in most cases - iTunes will recover the metadata contained in the media files and use this for the new additions to the library). You can then use iTunes as normal to sync that content to a second iPod. See tt2's user tip on Recover your iTunes library from your iPod or iOS device for more information.


"itunes trawls the entire computer for files" describes something that happens only when iTunes is first installed when or when you create a new library. Indeed, one of the most common complaints about iTunes is that it does not automatically look for new content to be added to its library - for those who want this functionality there are third-party add-ons that provide it (e.g., iTunes Folder Watch). Are you seeing this behavior every time you start iTunes? If so, this suggests something awry with your iTunes installation, which can probably only be resolved by removing all components of iTunes and re-installing - see Troubleshooting issues with iTunes for Windows updates.


"it seems there is a lot of file detail confusion between the itunes library and the way files are tagged in windows" - actually, it is relatively straightforward, though there are some scenarios that can make it seem confusing. Unless you are using WAV files, iTunes will store most metadata within tags in the media files. The exceptions are iTunes-specific information like date added, last played, playcount, ratings, etc. - these are only stored in the iTunes database (the iTunes Library.itl file). Confusion can arise, though, since the metadata that's stored in the media files is also stored in the database, and that the latter is not automatically updated to match any updates made within the media files outside of iTunes. This is one of the reasons why it is not a good idea to modify metadata using other tools after media has been added to the iTunes library - any changes you make will only be visible (and update the database) when iTunes opens the media files to play them.


Also, MP3 files can include multiple versions of some tags - these are located in different places within the .mp3 file and can, in some cases, contain different values for the "same" tag. A third-party tool may, for example, update the value in an ID3v1 tag but leave that in the corresponding ID3v2 tag unchanged - when iTunes imports or opens the file, it generally will pick up the ID3v2 version (iTunes' "native" MP3 tagging uses ID3v2.3) and so the changes won't be seen.


"changing file details in windows is a RPIA" - indeed, and as noted above, inadvisable. It is perfectly possible (and in some cases desirable), however, to use 3rd party tools to edit/update metadata associated with media files before they are added to the iTunes library (I use foobar 2000 for this, mainly because it handles bulk updates far better than iTunes), but once your media is in iTunes you should only use iTunes to make changes to it,


"itunes column headings (album/album by artist/album by year, etc) is utterly unclear" - these are just sorting options within iTunes' Songs view - switching between these doesn't modify metadata in any way.


  • Album - sorts songs by album (and then by disc number and track number); if present, values in the Sort Album tag take preference over the Album value
  • Album by Artist - actually specifies a "double sort", first by artist (with preference order of tags being Sort Album Artist, Album Artist, Sort Artist, Artist), then by album (as above) within each artist
  • Album by Year - effectively a "triple sort" in that ordering will be by artist, then by values in the Year tag, and then by album (where the last component is significant only if the library/playlist being sorted contains two or more releases by an artist with the same Year value).

Feb 15, 2016 6:46 AM in response to hhgttg27

on this computer, my c: drive is a small SSD; my e: drive is a 2 terabyte rotating memory. so e is legitimately whre my music files are stored. when i plug an ipod in to the computer, it gets a drive based on which bank of USB ports it is plugged into, so that assignment is temporary while the e:\ is permanent.

i purified my e:\music file structure last night, and i note that *now* the files in ipod_control (which was created by itunes) continue to show my content (randomized), but the file names attached to them all appear to be pseudorandom (see snip attached).


as for the trawling, this is a fairly new pc, with the hard drive from the previous machine installed as e:\ . i saw that a number of my photo files were corrupted on the e: drive, so before futzing with installing itunes on the new machine, i copied all my music to a directory called e:\not music, in the hopes that itunes would completely ignore it when it did the first index - note, there is no way that i can see to tell itunes where to look, and indeed it found some audio transcripts that i had deliberately located in my photo directory. i don't know if it continues to trawl, and no longer care about that nicety; but controlling where it *did* look would have been nice, because it (in retrospect, obviously) indexed every piece of music twice - once from e:\music and once from e:\not music - clearly, Apple considers this a feature while i consider it a a bug.


file tags etc - there was a technical article some time ago which discussed an Apple engineer (probably20 years ago) devising the now-industry-standard music indexing system. it fails miserablayt for classical music, in part because the record companies dont do a good job of filling out fields in the metadata; i have countless examples in my file. certainly, if i have three recordings of Beethoven's 9th, two with Herbert von Karajan conducting (once with the Vienna Symphony in 1957 and once with the Berlin in 1963 - all these are bogus data points) and another with a Eugen Jochum with a different orchestra, and various soloists, i would really not want to hunt for this music under "herbert" as the "artist" index ("Beethoven, Ludwig van" would be infinitely better); yet this is what i am stuck with. plus, compilation albums are a disaster. then, there is the question of what is "name" vs "title" (which apparently refer to tracks); and so on. My recording of Chopin's two piano concerti with Krystian Zimerman is tagged properly for one of the two, while the other is tagged to display in Japanese. it goes on and on.


so i have bee trying to purify the database *before* i turn itunes loose on it and would rather trash the itunes database periodically and let it rebuild itself from a (more-)purified database which windows creates from the file. oh, updating the file entries is an absolute *horror*. "album by artist" is a failure for me, once again because of the use of a person's *first* name as the sort key, and typically it's the *wrong* person.


i am uneducated at this point re the ID3v1 etc tagging system. perhaps you can point me somewhere to learn more.


User uploaded filemany thanks for this very helpful dialog...

Feb 15, 2016 8:00 AM in response to sophocles2715

As mentioned iTunes should ask whether or not you want to let it scan for media when it is first run. Although there appears to be a binary choice between letting it do so or visiting the iTunes Store, other choices exist, such as dragging and dropping media to the iTunes window, or enabling the menu bar with Ctrl+B and then using the File > Add Folder to Library option.


See Grouping tracks into albums for some ideas on logical organization of the iTunes library. Gracenotes has particular shortcomings when it comes to classical content. For me the artist in this case is the composer and the performer information is of less interest. Ideally there would be a few more fields in the global databases that are used, but it is possible to make something that works in iTunes as it is.


ITunes works best with mp3 files when they have a single ID3v2.3 tag. v1 limits most strings to 30 characters and supports fewer fields. Many players and tagging programs can and both a V1 & V2.x tag in parallel but iTunes doesn't always play nicely when these are present and may fail to process metadata changes correctly.


This is my post on deduping.


iTunes may create duplicates if the same content is repeatedly added from outside the media folder when it is set to make copies of anything that is added to the library, or is added from an external drive that hosts the media folder that was offline when iTunes was launched.




Apple's official advice on duplicates is here: Find and remove duplicate items in your iTunes library. It is a manual process and the article fails to explain some of the potential pitfalls such as lost ratings and playlist membership, or that sometimes the same file can be represented by multiple entries in the library and that deleting one and recycling the file will break any others.


Use Shift > View > Show Exact Duplicate Items to display duplicates as this is normally a more useful selection. You need to manually select all but one of each group to remove. Sorting the list by Date Added may make it easier to select the appropriate tracks, however this works best when performed immediately after the dupes have been created. If you have multiple entries in iTunes connected to the same file on the hard drive then don't send to the recycle bin.


Use my DeDuper script (Windows only) if you're not sure, don't want to do it by hand, or want to preserve ratings, play counts and playlist membership. See this thread for background, this post for detailed instructions, and please take note of the warning to backup your library before deduping.

(If you don't see the menu bar press ALT to show it temporarily or CTRL+B to keep it displayed.)


The most recent version of the script can tidy dead links as long as there is at least one live duplicate to merge stats and playlist membership to, and should cope sensibly when the same file has been added via multiple paths.


tt2

Feb 15, 2016 8:02 AM in response to sophocles2715

This may be too late to be useful (unless you have a backup from your E: drive that you can use to start again!) but when moving an iTunes library between drives (or between PCs) it is much easier to replicate the complete library structure, including the library database and other supporting files/folders, as well as the media files and folders. To do this successfully, everything should be contained within a single parent folder and look something like this:

User uploaded file

See tt2's notes on Make a split library portable for the steps that may be necessary to bring your library into this layout. Moving files and folders around in other ways is just about guaranteed to produce problems, typically those associated with iTunes being unable to locate the media files for items in its library database.


Once you've done this you can SHIFT-start iTunes and select the library file on the external drive, with all your library content - including playlists, ratings, play counts, etc. - being retained. My own setup is not dissimilar to yours, in that my library (structured as above) is on an external USB drive, which I regularly back up / replicate to three other systems (all of which also use external drives).


With respect to tagging systems, you're right that most aspects of the way that "standards" are defined for creating and storing metadata for media in MP3/AAC/etc. formats is primarily targeted at "popular" music and does have some apparent limitations when applied to classical music. It is, however, possible to work around these limitations.


For example, I tag everything in the "classical" segment of my library setting the Artist value to the orchestra / conductor / soloists / etc., but put the composer's name in the Sort Artist field. So, in your example, any recording of Beethoven's 9th Symphony would have "Beethoven, Ludvig van" in the Sort Artist tag (with variations to use Album Artist and Sort Album Artist where the album includes recordings by different artists/ensembles). Similarly, I set the Album value to the name of the work(s) included in the recording, but set the Sort Album value to the composer's name followed by the year of composition (using Opus nos. or equivalent would also work here). This isn't really set up to make searching easier, but has the advantage that in Albums view I can sort by Artist and then by Title with the results actually being ordered by composer and then by date of composition. I'm using a different iTunes library at the moment but I can follow up with some illustrative screenshots shortly ...

Feb 17, 2016 6:55 AM in response to turingtest2

ok, two new questions.

1 - i tried comparing the itunes view of some music vs the windows view. i think the following applies; do you agree?

WINDOWS ITUNES

Title name

contributing artist artist

album artist album artist

conductors conductor

name ???


2 - two windows folders which i *think* are formatted identically show up differently in itunes, and hence in my ipod.

screenshots of "BerliozRequiem" and "World Beloved" as shown in windows, and screenshots from the ipod as opened in itunes. note that the barnett shows all the tracks a part of one album in itunes while the individual tracks of the berlioz show up as individual albums. any ideas?

User uploaded fileUser uploaded fileUser uploaded file

Feb 17, 2016 7:18 AM in response to sophocles2715

  1. The Windows column title Name is the filename, which isn't really exposed in iTunes. You can use the Get Info > File tab to see the filepath which ends with the filename.
  2. iTunes doesn't pay any attention to the physical layout of the files on the drive, what matters is what the metadata says. If in iTunes you reveal artist, album artist, album, sort artist, sort album artist, sort album, track # & disc # you should be able to see most of the data that has an impact. Compilation isn't exposed in the list, and some split album issues are caused by invisible characters such as trailing spaces. The Grouping article should cover all of the potential causes and treatments. In the case of the Berlioz Requiem each track has been given a distinct album name rather than them all sharing a common one.


tt2

files in Fxx folders show in my itunes directory.

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