is Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 reall slower than other sata II?

I read some reviews. it seems like seagate 7200.10 drive is slower than others like WD Caviar RE2 ?

toshiba laptop, Windows XP Pro

Posted on Nov 24, 2006 5:04 PM

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14 replies

Nov 24, 2006 5:56 PM in response to aquamac

User uploaded fileOverall I believe you can do better, especially in a RAID set. The thing is, the Barracudas do perform extremely well when you have large, sequential, read and writes. Problem is, they're not especially good at the smaller random stuff.

It does have it's big pluses but also big minuses. It really depends on what you want it for.

If you're looking for an excellent all round drive then I don't believe you can beat the Maxtor MaXLine III/Pro drives.

Nov 25, 2006 7:39 AM in response to 4Runner

I think the "jive" for what is different is firmware. And the perpendicular design probably is so different it really meant having to rewrite their firmware.

Even the non-RE WD drives are not a good choice for RAID.

Odd. Seagate buys Maxtor, but it is Maxtor SATA that has been reliable these last 2-3 yrs, and WD's Raptor for full 3 yrs.

When I bought 7200.10 I got them with OWC.

Nov 26, 2006 4:25 PM in response to aquamac

I read some reviews. it seems like seagate 7200.10
drive is slower than others like WD Caviar RE2 ?


The real problem with Seagate 7200.10 hard drives is that when they are used internally in a Macintosh they have a limit of 46MB/sec write speeds. I have the latest Gal2D_3AAE shipping firmware that Seagate sent me but it still has a write speed limit of 46MB/sec.

I know Seagate is working on this and they have sent Barefeats a set of 750GB hard drives that fixed this issue but it still had low random access speeds.

If you use two or more Seagate 7200.10 hard drives internally in a Mac Pro as a striped RAID the speed limit disappears. In addition, if you use them externally with any of the PCIe SATA host adapters the speed limit disappears too.

There is a conflict internally with the on-board Mac Pro SATA bus that impaacts the 7200.10 series write speeds with individual hard drives.

The Seagate 7200.10 hard drives are the fastest available 7200 RPM hard drives on a Mac Pro when configured externally or as an internal striped RAID.

Once you know their limitations, the Seagate 7200.10 is one of the fastest hard drives available for large block transfers like video editing. Of course, in a single drive speed test users never learn about these issues.

Have fun!

Nov 27, 2006 4:56 PM in response to mbean

If you use two or more Seagate 7200.10 hard drives
internally in a Mac Pro as a striped RAID the speed
limit disappears.


I disagree, poor random write performance persists, even in a RAID-0 setup. See my comparison of 3-disk RAID-0 stripes using Barracuda ES and Maxtor MaxLine 250GB drives:

http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=197856&doc2=199677

I should add that I haven't used 7200.10 drives in a RAID setup. However, their single drive performance is more or less identical to the Barracuda ES, and I wouldn't expect them to outperform the ES drives in a RAID.

Cheers
Steffen.

Nov 28, 2006 1:38 PM in response to dotnet

I disagree, poor random write performance persists,
even in a RAID-0 setup. See my comparison of 3-disk
RAID-0 stripes using Barracuda ES and Maxtor MaxLine
250GB drives:



If Xbench is the only test you run between the Maxline 250GB and the Seagate 7200.10 250GB then you will be convinced that the 7200.10 is slower as a result of the slower random write speeds that Xbench displays for the 7200.10.

However, once you realize that Xbench really is a very poor test for hard drives, as it does not reflect actual hard drive performance with video. You start to look at other tests.

If you test a striped RAID set of 7200.10 250GB hard drives with file duplication you will find that the Seagate 7200.10 outperforms the Maxline by 10-15%. This is also ducumented in the AMUG Mac Pro Review found here:
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/intel/macpro/

Just scroll down to the heading "Four Drive Striped RAID Boot Test".

While the Maxtor wins with Xbench it is actually slower when testing with DiskTester or duplicating a group of files. This specific speed capability makes the Seagate 7200.10 striped RAID set ideal of working with large video files where large block performance is needed much more than random write performance.

In fact, in real world usage I have not found a single test where a Seagate 7200.10 striped RAID set was beat by a Maxline striped RAID set by any considerable margin. However, I have found tests where the 7200.10 did beat the Maxline by 10% or more when large video files were used.

I think too much reliance is placed on Xbench for hard drive speed ratings as the results rarely translate into real world performance.

I own nine Maxline III 300GB 7V300F0 models and ten Seagate 7200.10 320GB models. When used as a striped RAID set the 7200.10 drives usually beat the 7V300F0 when DiskTester is used to speed test the striped RAID sets.

Both hard drives are good and while I would not use a single 7200.10 in a Mac Pro, I would use 7200.10 striped RAID sets with a Mac Pro for video usage.

Nov 28, 2006 5:28 PM in response to mbean

If Xbench is the only test you run between the
Maxline 250GB and the Seagate 7200.10 250GB then you
will be convinced that the 7200.10 is slower as a
result of the slower random write speeds that Xbench
displays for the 7200.10.


Xbench isn't the only test I ran. Disk tester showed the exact same lack of random write performance with the Seagates. In fact, it was only after the disk tester runs that I decided to put some energy behind sourcing some MaxLine drives (they were hard to get by over here).

However, once you realize that Xbench really is a
very poor test for hard drives, as it does not
reflect actual hard drive performance with video. You
start to look at other tests.


No benchmark is ever going to accurately predict how a piece of hard- or software will perform for a particular user. That's the nature of benchmarks. Most aim at covering common usage patterns, with varying success. Your example of video use seems a rather specialised application, however.

Even though I do deal with video files (typically < 10GB), I still don't fall into the huge file/sequential write scenario. Simply because I don't have a dedicated volume for video files. The same volume also contains all my other data and in fact the OS. Besides, there is hardly ever a situation for me where a video file gets written out as fast as the disk can take it. Creating it usually takes much more time than writing.

If you test a striped RAID set of 7200.10 250GB hard
drives with file duplication you will find that the
Seagate 7200.10 outperforms the Maxline by 10-15%.


That may well be. However, random disk IO is a much more relevant scenario for me. With random write we're not talking about a 10-15% margin, we're looking at the Seagates providing 10% of the MaxLines' write speed at small block sizes and 60% at larger block sizes.

While the Maxtor wins with Xbench it is actually
slower when testing with DiskTester or duplicating a
group of files. This specific speed capability makes
the Seagate 7200.10 striped RAID set ideal of working
with large video files where large block performance
is needed much more than random write performance.


Again, I don't dispute that they shine on specialised applications. I just don't happen to have a dedicated video volume.

In fact, in real world usage I have not found a
single test where a Seagate 7200.10 striped RAID set
was beat by a Maxline striped RAID set by any
considerable margin.


I have. After switching from Barracuda ES to MaxLine drives the interactive performance of Aperture (including importing files, generating thumbnails, refreshing large pages full of thumbnails, flicking through images in full-screen, making adjustments, etc) increased substantially. I presume this is because those operations rely heavily on small amounts of data (adjustments, metadata, image and thumbnail caches,...) to be written a lot, and all over the Aperture library.

Cheers
Steffen.

Dec 12, 2006 11:22 AM in response to dotnet

I have. After switching from Barracuda ES to MaxLine
drives the interactive performance of Aperture
(including importing files, generating thumbnails,
refreshing large pages full of thumbnails, flicking
through images in full-screen, making adjustments,
etc) increased substantially. I presume this is
because those operations rely heavily on small
amounts of data (adjustments, metadata, image and
thumbnail caches,...) to be written a lot, and all
over the Aperture library.


Hmmm.... Interesting that you mention that. I've noticed that Aperture isn't as speedy / smooth as others seem to think it is. I've got 4 of the 320gig 7200.10 drives in a RAID 10 setup. I've also got 4gig RAM and the ATI x1900 video card. Should be an excellent Aperture setup by everything I've seen but I'm still a little disappointed with it. It seems to be accessing the drives between and during each action (including sliding the adjustment sliders). Making adjustments by using the sliders seems pretty herky-jerky to me.

Is this similar to your experience? Did swapping out the drives make the adjustment sliders move smoother for you? Do the adjustments seem to apply faster?

I had begun to think my expectations were just plain out of whack until seeing your post here. Now I'm re-thinking it.


Mac Pro

Dec 12, 2006 11:51 AM in response to Phil U.

I've got 4 of the 320gig 7200.10 drives in a RAID 10 setup

Apple DU Mirror RAID is part of the problem/equation. Either stay with plain RAID and do backups, maybe break it into a non-RAID boot drive (but obviously NOT with one of the four drives) and RAID0 the others, or two stripped RAIDs.

Or, do as I do, 10K Raptor boot drive and RAID 2 or 3 WD RE-series. And that way make the Raptor your dedicated OS/Apps drive.

Dec 12, 2006 12:41 PM in response to mbean

I use Xbench because of the convenience of exporting the results of the test in text format. I have matched XBench's test results against the AJA KONA Benchmark and Xbench produces accurate results.

It is true that random write times are not too practical in the real world. However I can confirm that configurations that tested poorly in Xbench also had poor file transfer rates just copy and pasting in OS X.

For that matter I have tested the drives I have with Kona using 1gb blocks and 4gb blocks and still find <15mb/s write times in some configurations.

You can see detailed xbench results here:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=768794&tstart=0

The long and short of it is that the seagate 320gb 7200.10 drives are far from fully compatible with OSX at the moment. I own 4 of them and I would recomend staying away from them.

Jeremiah

Dec 12, 2006 6:57 PM in response to Phil U.

Is this similar to your experience? Did swapping out
the drives make the adjustment sliders move smoother
for you? Do the adjustments seem to apply faster?


Yes, although this is a bit hard for me to quantify. I didn't really prepare a test case and compared the before and after. The smoothness of making adjustments much depends on which adjustments have already been applied to the image.

However, I can definitively say that straightening an image is smoother, and scrolling through the thumbnails of a large projects folder is also noticably smoother.

On a whole, my current setup rarely gives me reason to complain, it shows very little jerkiness, and for only a few things (like straightening).

Cheers
Steffen.

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is Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 reall slower than other sata II?

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