where do my photos go?

Hi Joe,

I don't know if I can answer all of your questions, but it sounds like you are set up in a similar fashion to the way I am so I'll tell you what I know:

Joe M21 wrote:

Been meaning to ask this for a while. Frankly, "Photos" has me confused as to where my photos go and the relationship between devices and iCloud. I'm hoping someone can detail a simple explanation as to how this all works.

I am coming from Aperture, which I really enjoyed using. It is what it is. The point is that I am not coming from an iPhoto background so the terminology may also be confusing me. To the best of my knowledge, Aperture uses the iPhoto Library, so the terminology should be similar. I still use iPhoto and Aperture along with Photos on my Mac.

I have Photos on my Mac and photos on my iPhone (also on my iPad, but let's not confuse things). The iOS and Mac app for photos now all have the same name - Photos.

On my Mac and iPhone:

iCloud Photo Library is OFF Me too

My Photo Stream is ON Yup

iCloud Photo Sharing is ON Yup

Also, since you indicate below that your camera photos show up in all three locations on the Mac, then in the Photos app on the Mac under Photos>Preferences>General, it sounds like you also have the option under Importing to "Copy items to the Photos Library" turned on

So I take a photo with my phone. It appears in the Camera Roll and My Photo Stream sections. It also shows up on my desktop in "Photos," "All Photos," and "My Photo Stream."

So where exactly is this photo? What happens if I delete it from any one of these five "locations?" Does that delete it from all locations? The photo is on your device (in the iPhone's Photos Library), as well as on your Mac in the Mac's Photos Library. There is one library in each place. Since you are not using iCloud Photo Library (which is one big shared library among all devices and computers signed into the same iCloud account with iCloud Photo Library turned on), each device and the Mac each have a Photo Library.

How would I delete a photo from my phone only (which I consider temporary storage), but keep it on my desktop (which I consider permanent storage)? Since you have Importing turned on in the Photos app on the Mac, you can delete the photo from your iPhone's Photo Library and it will have no affect on your Mac's Photo Library

Now I drag that photo to an album on the desktop program. It appears in a sixth location. Does this change anything? Can I delete it from one of the locations on my phone and still keep the file on my desktop? Can I remove it from any of the areas of the desktop program (aside from "All Photos") and simply keep it in the folder I dragged it to? There is only one library in each place. One on the phone, one on the iPad, one on the Mac. The Photo Stream is separate as it is designed to share photos between devices, so deleting a photo from the Camera Roll on your phone won't delete it from the Photo Stream. And if you delete a photo from your Photo Stream it won't delete it from your Camera Roll. Photos that are in albums can be deleted without affecting either the Photo Stream or Camera Roll. An album is just a folder that is pointing to the different photos in your library. When you delete a photo from an Album, you are just deleting the pointer, not the photo itself. The same principal applies to the photo structure on the Mac.

I have turned off the auto-open Photos when the iPhone is connected - there are no photos to import because they all seem to be imported via iCloud. I always thought that iCloud only transferred a low-res version via Photo Stream and you still had to connect and import to get the full-res version. Has this changed? I believe the los-res, full-res refers to the iCloud photo library, not to Photo Stream. To the best of my knowledge, the photos that are imported to the Mac from Photo Stream are full resolution images. I used to have iPhoto set up to automatically import my Photo Stream photos as well.

We create a shared album where several people add photos from an event. We can all see all the photos in the Shared album. But where are those photos? Do I have a permanent copy on my desktop? Can someone delete a photos I have added? If so, does it get deleted from my computer? What if someone deletes a photo they added? Is that deleted from my desktop? If I drag all the photos from the shared album to another local album, does that save a permanent copy on my desktop? Photos and what is done with them in a Shared Photo Stream has no affect on any of your Photo Libraries. Shared Photos are all housed in iCloud, but do not count against your iCloud storage, and will remain there until they are deleted by you or a contributor deletes them. Here is a support article that may provide a clearer insight into how the Shared Photo Stream process works: iCloud Photo Sharing FAQ - Apple Support

When I take photos with my DSLR, it is simple... import from the card to "Photos" (well, almost simple - I have to import using Image Capture to delete the low-res jpeg files so only the RAW files are imported. If not I have to manually change each photo to RAW in Photos, one by one).

Would really like to have a better understanding of how this is all intended to work.

Not sure about the camera part. I import directly to the Photos app with my 35mm digital camera. Because I am not deep into the image processing, so am not conversant with RAW images....(sorry).

But hopefully, the explanations of the structures is a bit clearer. Post back with any questions!

Cheers,

GB

That is correct - or better yet if you want only RAW (and that is common) then shoot ony RAW and eliminate the extra work and extra storage

LN

Joe M21 wrote:

Thanks for the clear explanation. It simpler than I thought. 🙂 YAY! You are most welcome!

So any photo i take on my iPhone is saved in the iPhone Library. Yes

Due to the settings I have (Copy items to the Photos Library) these photos are automatically downloaded from iPhone to desktop Library Yes

Once in a device's "Library" the photo will not be affected by deletion on a different device. Correct

Do I understand it correctly so far? ➕

A few more questions:

Deleting a photo from a device's library... on the desktop, I know I can remove from an album with a keystroke or menu command (which will keep the photo but remove it from the album). I also see how a contextual menu item will also delete the photo from Album and Library. This all makes sense. What about the iOS version? How do i delete a photo from and iOS device? Is "Camera Roll" considered the "Library" or just another "Album?" Do I need to go into the "Photos" section and delete from the "Collections?"
So, the photos you see in the Photos option (Years, Collections, Moments) are basically a compendium of all of the photos you see in all of the Albums arranged chronologically (so they include the Camera Roll and the Photo Stream photos as well as any photos you might have sync'd to the device via iTunes). To delete photo from the Library, you can delete them from the Camera Roll album directly. You can also delete Camera Roll and Photo Stream photos from the photos view, and it will tell you which one it is deleting them from when you click on the trash can. Photos that have been sync'd to the phone must be removed the same way - by syncing to iTunes with that Album de-selected from the sync option. So, it is easiest to manage your library in relation to deleting photos by deleting them directly from the Camera Roll.

When you delete photos from the Camera Roll or the Photo Stream, they will no longer show up in the Photos view.

Also, if you decide to play around and try things out, you can always recover any photo you delete by going to the Recently Deleted album within 30 days of the deletion, select the photo and then click on Restore. It will put it back where it came from.

Cheers,

GB

Joe M21 wrote:

Forgot to mention about the RAW import. It isn't a matter of me misunderstanding it, it is more a feature problem.

When I shoot with my DSLR, I shoot in RAW. I also have the camera set to create a small jpeg version. This is a common feature on these types of cameras. While I have never used the jpegs, it makes me feel better to have that "backup" copy of the photo (albeit in much lower resolution).

When importing photos, Aperture gave the choice to import RAW, JPEG or both. Photos does not give the choice. It imports both. There'll problem is that it considers the jpeg as the "master." To use the RAW as master, you need to enter edit mode and select a menu option (no keyboard shortcut). Because this is done in edit mode, it must be done one photo at a time. You cannot select multiple photos or do any kind of batch change. When your card has a few hundred photos, this is a long and tedious process. In addition, there doesn't seem any way to delete the redundant jpeg file that Photos imports.

The only workaround is to bring everything in via another method. I use image Capture. You can also simply copy the photos off the camera's memory card. Once copied, you then segregate the RAW files and only import them.

Thanks for the explanation! It was me that was in over my head on that one. You explained it very clearly! 🙂

GB

Glad you are here LarryHN. If I have misstated anything please correct me! You are far more knowledgeable than I am about all of this stuff 🙂

Thanks!

GB

Joe M21 wrote:

"You can also delete Camera Roll and Photo Stream photos from the photos view, and it will tell you which one it is deleting them from when you click on the trash can. Photos that have been sync'd to the phone must be removed the same way - by syncing to iTunes with that Album de-selected from the sync option. So, it is easiest to manage your library in relation to deleting photos by deleting them directly from the Camera Roll.

When you delete photos from the Camera Roll or the Photo Stream, they will no longer show up in the Photos view."

I think I'm almost there. 🙂

On iOS - I understand that deleting from Camera Roll seems the simplest way to delete on that iOS device. I also understand how it is a deletion from that device's library and thus the photo no longer appears in the "collections" area.

Just want to clear up the last sentence. Earlier you note that deletion from the "photos" view will tell you which will be deleted (Roll or Stream). However, last sentence notes that deleting from Roll OR stream will no longer show photo in photos view.I might be misunderstanding, but that seems like a contradiction.

From what I understand, "Camera Roll" is essentially the library. But does the photo reside as a separate entity in Photo Stream? They are separate. So, let's say you take a photo right now. It will show up in both your Camera Roll and in your Photo Stream. You can delete it from your Camera Roll, but it will remain in your Photo Stream, and vice versa. So, each is managed separately, and must be deleted separately.

In terms of the Photo Steam and deletions, one thing to keep in mind is that in the Photo Stream on any given device, although you may see photos that are older than 30 days, or you may see more than the 1000 photo limit, that is only because they are residing locally on your device at that point, so there is a local copy of your Photo Stream photos (I think I may have mislead you a bit earlier on that point). The copies are not in your Photo Library, but they are on your device. If you were to go to Settings>Photos & Camera and turn off your Photo Stream and then turn it back on, it would clear the local storage of your Photo Stream Photos, and then push back what iCloud was storing at that time - which would only be the last 30 days or 1000 photos, whichever comes first). So, when managing Photo Stream photos, some of the management is "live" and some is just locally deleting. (Hope that didn't totally confuse you 😐)....

Does deletion of one automatically delete the other? No Or must it be deleted separately to completely remove the photo from the iOS device? Yes.

I am guessing that removal from Photo Stream removes the Photo from the Photo Stream section of any device sharing that same photo stream account. Correct. However, when that photo is removed from the Photo Stream, it will still reside in the "Library" of the desktop machine because I have the "Copy Items To Photos Library" selected in the desktop version. Correct - it will still reside in the Camera Roll as well until it is deleted, and it will still reside on your Mac since it has been imported "on the fly".

One last thing that to be aware of in the Photos view. If you are trying to delete photos from that view, and you come across a photo that does not give you the Trash Can option, that is because it is a photo that has been sync'd to your device via iTunes. I was playing around trying to test all of the answers I was giving you today, and there was a recent photo in my Photos view that wouldn't go away even though I had deleted said photo from my Camera roll and my Photo Stream. It also had appeared as though it were a duplicate in the Photos view. Once I deleted it from my Photo Stream and Camera Roll only one remained, but I couldn't delete it - no trash can. What? After looking around, I realized had sync'd it from my Mac in some other test that I was doing...(eyeroll). So, just wanted to let you know what that would be all about if you encounter it. If it doesn't give you the option to delete it, then it is a sync'd photo.

Again - many thanks for bearing with me on this. The information has been very helpful. You are most welcome, and it always is helpful to me as well when I get a chance to re-visit this all step by step. I always learn something new or remember something long forgotten! 🙂

Cheers,

GB

Joe M21 wrote:

Terrific. It all makes sense now. I no longer have to fear deletions. 🙂

On the synced via iTunes photos... your comments confirm what I already figured out. I could see that photos in those synced albums could not be deleted and realized that they would need to be removed from the album in the desktop version to be removed from the iOS version. Actually, the only way to remove sync'd photos from your iOS device is to "un-sync" them the same way. You have to connect your device to iTunes, select Photos, uncheck the album you want deleted, and sync again. It is an "independent operator" once it is sync'd. Actions taken on that album on the Mac would not be reflected on the iOS version until it was sync'd again.

The info is pure gold. Thanks.

You are most welcome! 🙂

GB

You've got it, by Joe! (pun intended) 🙂 That is exactly how it works!

GB